Posted on 05/09/2004 1:45:35 AM PDT by F14 Pilot
Yesterday a friend of mine, who’s also a doctor, visited us. After chatting about old memories, I asked him about his opinions on the current situations in Iraq. I’ve always known this friend to be apathetic when it comes to politics, even if it means what’s happening in Iraq. It was obvious that he hadn’t change and didn’t show any interest in going deep into this conversation. However when I asked him about his opinion on GWB response to the prisoners’ abuse issue, I was surprised to see him show anger and disgust as he said:
- This whole thing makes me sick.
- Why is that?! I asked.
- These thugs are treated much better than what they really deserve!
- What are you saying!? You can’t possibly think that this didn’t happen! And they’re still human beings, and there could be some innocents among them.
- Of course it happened, and I’m not talking about all the prisoners nor do I support these actions, and there could be some innocents among them, but I doubt it.
- Then why do you say such a thing?
- Because these events have taken more attention than they should.
- I agree but there should be an investigation on this. There are other pictures that were shown lately, and there are talks about others that will be shown in the near future.
- Yes, but what happened cannot represent more than 1% of the truth.
- Oh I really hope there would be no more than that.
- No, that’s not what I meant. What I’m saying is that these events are the exception and not the rule. - How do you know that!? I must say I agree with your presumption, but I don’t have a proof, and I never thought you’d be interested in such issue!
- I was there for a whole month!
- In Abu-Gharib!? What were you doing there!?
- It was part of my training! Did you forget that!? I know you skipped that at Saddam’s time, but how could you forget that?
- Yes, but I thought that with the American troops there, the system must have been changed.
-No it’s still the same. We still have to do a month there.
-So tell me what did you see there? How’s the situation of the prisoners? Did you see any abuse? Do they get proper medical care? (I was excited to see someone who was actually there, and he was a friend!)
- Hey, slow down! I’ll tell you what I know. First of all, the prisoners are divided into two groups; the ordinary criminals and the political ones. I used to visit the ordinary criminals during every shift, and after that, the guards would bring anyone who has a complaint to me at the prison’s hospital. - What about the “political” ones?
- I’m not allowed to go to their camps, but when one of them feels ill, the guards bring him to me.
- Are the guards all Americans?
- No, the American soldiers with the IP watch over and take care of the ordinary criminals, but no one except the Americans is allowed to get near the political ones
- How are the medical supplies in the prison?
- Not very great, but certainly better from what it was on Saddam’s times. However my work is mainly at night, but in the morning the supplies are usually better.
- How many doctors, beside you, were there?
- There was an American doctor, who’s always their (His name is Eric, a very nice guy, he and I became friends very fast), and other Iraqi doctors with whom I shared the work, and in the morning, there are always some Iraqi senior doctors; surgeons, physicians…etc.
-Why do you say they are very well treated?
- They are fed much better than they get at their homes. I mean they eat the same stuff we eat, and it’s pretty good; eggs, cheese, milk and tea, meat, bread and vegetables, everything! And that happened every day, and a good quality too.
-Are they allowed to smoke? (I asked this because at Saddam’s times, it was a crime to smoke in prison and anyone caught while doing this would be punished severely).
- Yes, but they are given only two cigarettes every day.
- What else? How often are they allowed to take a bath? (This may sound strange to some people, but my friend understood my question. We knew from those who spent sometime in Saddam’s prisons, and survived, that they were allowed to take a shower only once every 2-3 weeks.)
- Anytime they want! There are bathrooms next to each hall.
- Is it the same with the “political” prisoners?
- I never went there, but I suppose it’s the same because they were always clean when they came to the hospital, and their clothes were always clean too.
-How often do they shave? (I remember a friend who spent 45 days in prison at Saddam’s times had told me that the guards would inspect their beards every day to see if they were shaved properly, and those who were not, would be punished according to the guards’ mood. He also told me that they were of course not allowed to have any shaving razors or machines and would face an even worse punishment in case they found some of these on one of the prisoners. So basically all the prisoners had to smuggle razors, which cost a lot, shave in secrecy and then get rid of the razor immediately! That friend wasn’t even a political prisoner; he was arrested for having a satellite receiver dish in his house!)
- I’m not sure, from what I saw, it seemed that there was a barber visiting them frequently, because they had different hair cuts, some of them shaved their beards others kept them or left what was on their chins only. I mean it seemed that they had the haircut they desired!
-Yes but what about the way they are treated? And how did you find American soldiers in general?
- I’ll tell you about that; first let me tell you that I was surprised with their politeness. Whenever they come to the hospital, they would take of their helmets and show great respect and they either call me Sir or doctor. As for the way they treat the prisoners, they never handcuff anyone of those, political or else, when they bring them for examination and treatment unless I ask them to do so if I know that a particular prisoner is aggressive, and I never saw them beat a prisoner and rarely did one of them use an offensive language with a prisoner.
One of those times, a member of the American MP brought one of the prisoners, who was complaining from a headache, but when I tried to take history from him he said to me “doctor, I had a problem with my partner (he was a homosexual) I’m not Ok and I need a morphine or at least a valium injection” when I told him I can’t do that, he was outraged, swore at me and at the Americans and threatened me. I told the soldier about that, and he said “Ok Sir, just please translate to him what I’m going to say”. I agreed and he said to him “I want you to apologize to the doctor and I want your word as a man that you’ll behave and will never say such things again” and the convict told him he has his word!!
Another incidence I remember was when one of the soldiers brought a young prisoner to the hospital. The boy needed admission but the soldier said he’s not comfortable with leaving the young boy (he was about 18) with those old criminals and wanted to keep him in the isolation room to protect him. I told him that this is not allowed according to the Red Cross regulations. He turned around and saw the paramedics’ room and asked me if he can keep him there, and I told him I couldn’t. The soldier turned to a locked door and asked me about it. I said to him “It’s an extra ward that is almost deserted but I don’t have the keys, as the director of the hospital keeps them with him”. The soldier grew restless, and then he brought some tools, broke that door, fixed it, put a new lock, put the boy inside and then locked the door and gave me the key!
- Did you witness any aggressiveness from American soldiers?
- Only once. There was a guy who is a troublemaker. He was abnormally aggressive and hated Americans so much. One of those days the soldiers were delivering lunch and he took the soup pot that was still hot and threw it at one of the guards. The guard avoided it and the other guards caught the convict and one of them used an irritant spray that causes sever itching, and then they brought the prisoner to me to treat him.
- So you think that these events are isolated?
-As far as I know and from what I’ve seen, I’m sure that they are isolated.
-But couldn’t it be true that there were abusive actions at those times that the prisoners were afraid to tell you about?
-Are you serious!? These criminals, and I mean both types tell me all about there “adventures and bravery”. Some of them told me how they killed an American soldier or burned a humvee, and in their circumstances this equals a confession! Do you think they would’ve been abused and remained silent and not tell me at least!? No, I don’t think any of this happened during the time I was there. It seemed that this happened to a very small group of whom I met no one during that month.
- Can you tell me anything about those “political” prisoners? Are they Islamists, Ba’athists or what?
- Islamists?? I don't care what they call themselves, but they are thugs, they swear all the time, and most of them are addicts or homosexuals or both. Still very few of them looked educated.
- Ah, that makes them close to Ba’athists. Do you think there are innocents among them?
- There could be. Some of them say they are and others boast in front of me, as I said, telling the crimes they committed in details. Of course I’m not naive enough to blindly believe either.
- Are they allowed to get outside, and how often? Do they have fans or air coolers inside their halls?
- Of course they are! Even you still compare this to what it used to be at Saddam’s times and there’s absolutely no comparison. They play volleyball or basketball everyday, and they have fans in their halls.
- Do they have sport suits?
- No, it’s much better than Saddam’s days but it’s still a prison and not the Sheraton. They use the same clothes but I’ve seen them wearing train shoes when they play.
-Are they allowed to read?
- Yes, I’ve seen the ordinary criminals read, and I believe the political are allowed too, because I remember one of them asking me to tell one of the American soldiers that he wanted his book that one of the soldiers had borrowed from him.
- So, you believe there’s a lot of clamor here?
-As you said these things are unaccepted but I’m sure that they are isolated and they are just very few exceptions that need to be dealt with, but definitely not the rule. The rule is kindness, care and respect that most of these thugs don’t deserve, and that I have seen by my own eyes. However I still don't understand why did this happen.
-I agree with you, only it’s not about the criminals, it’s about the few innocents who could suffer without any guilt and it’s about us; those who try to build a new Iraq. We can’t allow ourselves to be like them and we can’t go back to those dark times. As for "why"; I must say that these few exceptions happen everywhere, only in good society they can be exposed and dealt with fast, while in corrupted regimes, it may take decades for such atrocities to be exposed which encourage the evil people to go on, and exceptions become the rule.
What happened in Abu-Gharib should be a lesson for us, Iraqis, above all. It showed how justice functions in a democratic society. We should study this lesson carefully, since sooner or later we'll be left alone and it will be our responsibility to deal with such atrocities, as these will never seize to happen.
-By Ali.
It was what happens when prison guards are not properly trained, disciplined and lead. Doesn't matter what the nation of origin, the educational level of the guards, or much else. See the Stanford Prison Experiment, in which a group of college students in 1971 were assigned to play the role of guard or prisoner. Very similar things to what we have seen (so far) out of these MPs, happened. They had to call off the "experiment" after only 6 days of a scheduled two weeks.
It does indeed, and the Army has done just that. Everyone involved is responsible, but I place much more responsibility on the officers for not doing their jobs.
I also don't have much sympathy for these prisoners because in the scheme of things, they're lucky to be alive -- plus they have it better than many American prisoners. Whether or not they are deemed unimportant intelligence wise, they were still captured on the battlefield so we must have had SOME reason to hold them in the first place.
I never said these MPs were blameless. In fact, I think some of them are freaking perverts, and the rest just went along with them. They have dishonored themselves, the military, and our country, so they should get the book thrown at them. In addition, their commanding officers should receive the same punishment for gross dereliction of duty. What were they doing while the inmates were running the asylum, for God's sake?
And for the record, my father was career AF and I was a military brat, so I hold the military in high regard. I'm sure that if my father were still alive, he'd be heartbroken about this stain on our servicemen.
Overall, I feel that if this were not an election year, we wouldn't be having these televised hearings or having this discussion in such depth. The horror that "the other side" is feigning for the cameras is ridiculous, especially since they've known about this investigation since January and I never saw their outrage then. After reading about the memo Rockefeller sent around, it's apparent they want to bring down this president at any cost, which infuriates me!
We are winning ~ the bad guys are losing ~ trolls, terrorists, democrats and the mainstream media are sad ~ very sad!
The situation for U.S. prsoner's is very sad and should also be scrutinized and investigated. However, that does not justify the actions of any soldiers, or "military contractors" which were taken at the abu gharib prison, or at any other of the POW facilities. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as humanity during war because war itself is inhumane. So to actually be naive enough to think that this prison abuse scandal is something new, we obviously have amnesia. Whether it was in Vietnam, Iraq or it was in our own domestic prisons, the fact is that people who are caged like animals, will be treated like animals.
There is no morality, only fear!
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