Unsettling close-ups (Gender Integration in the Military)

Washington Times ^ | 5/08/04 | Linda Chavez

[kattracks]

They make you want to turn away, those awful pictures of naked men piled into human pyramids while smirking American soldiers give the thumbs-up sign or grin inanely into the camera. Then you look closer, not at the humiliating jumble of naked flesh but at the American soldiers, and you realize that some of them are women. What is already a shocking tale becomes even more obscene and unsettling.

[Elkiejg]

Don't any of those women serving know about the pill?

[firedragon]

As a female in the military, I am fully aware that the integration of women into combat support and combat service support units has created a (slight) breakdown in cohesion and sometimes, in discipline. However, to quote my father, "There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics." Yes, sexual assault and pregnancy will always be an issue so long as men and women are cohabiting. But this is not the standard, and once you put the statistics of that article into perspective, I think you will realize that the majority of female soldiers are not promiscuous baby makers who are incapable of keeping their pants up.

Do not get me wrong; I am not a card-carrying member of NOW, I absolutely DO NOT believe that the role of women in the armed services should be expanded any further than where it presently stands. Women in combat arms, if I have my druthers, will never happen, but that's another topic in itself... Women serve a valuable and worthy role in the service, and we should not allow the actions of a few screwed up individuals, male or female, sway our opinion of women in uniform. The women with whom I serve are professional, morally upright, and deserve (and get) the respect of their peers.

[familyop]

I wonder how many of them know about erosion of the cervix, hysterectomies and what that kind of behavior did to the children of the spoiled rotten generation before them. I wonder what the recent stupid PR moves (The Jessica Lynch Show and Lynndie England Show series) are going to do to further kill prospects for many more new enlistments.

[rrrod]

It may be just a generational thing( IM an OLD guy} but the intergration of men and women in the military has created too many probs. Aboard ships is a classic example.

When news came out about the women(girls) captured in Iraq, I admit I cried like a baby!
Thank you for your service to our country.

[garylmoore]

Women in combat arms, if I have my druthers, will never happen,

---

It's about time that someone admitted that men and women do have different capailities, that is the way the God intended it, men have their places and women have theirs.

[Enterprise]

"Women serve a valuable and worthy role in the service, and we should not allow the actions of a few screwed up individuals, male or female, sway our opinion of women in uniform. The women with whom I serve are professional, morally upright, and deserve (and get) the respect of their peers."

All this is true, but no man gets a ticket home just because he can't keep his pants up. Each "person" evacuated because of pregnancy means there is one less person to do the job she was trained to do, and someone else has to carry the load. This is all well and good in peacetime, but it is unacceptable in war.

[Steve Eisenberg]

Women in combat arms, if I have my druthers, will never happen, but that's another topic in itself...

Maybe not. Most troops in Iraq probably feel right now that they are in combat every time they drive down a street.

The women with whom I serve are professional, morally upright, and deserve (and get) the respect of their peers.

Good to hear and I believe it to be largely true. However, I hope you would agree that the kind who go on deployments to conservative Islamic countries while their illegitimate toddler stays home crying for mommy are bringing our military into dispute.

[tkathy]

If only women were in charge of women prisoners, and only men had been in charge of male prisoners, I wonder if any of this would have happened.

[NetValue]

Right....as we used to say, "All the brothers are honorable; all the sisters are pure."

[LoudRepublicangirl]

Thank you for your posting. I wish this message could get out to the public but it looks like it is only interesting in looking at porn photos on the news.

[kittymyrib]

The little slut having such a good time in the prisoner abuse pictures is four months pregnant, knocked up by a guy in her unit. What a charming picture. What respectable family will want to have their daughter in the military?

[sandarr]

To say this article is slightly jaded would be an understatement. As the mother of a female soldier who has served active duty for nine years, you will find that most of the women serving take their jobs very seriously. To say that their is an alarming rate of pregnancy with soldiers in Iraq, I for one would like to know just where those facts came from and what the percentage is of the women serving there. Out of that percentage, how many deployed to Iraq and then found out they were pregnant? Also how many of these women are active duty and how many are Reservists or National Guard that were activated. Women just as men who are active duty, this is their job and the ones that intend to stay do not behave in a manner that will tarnish their career.
It like many other news stories belittles our troops, they are not in Iraq having any parties, that I assure you. Anyone with common sense would know that the camps there certainly are not set up where soldiers have private places they can go and I certainly do not think this is going on in their sleeping facilities as they are not separate rooms, but shared with anywhere from 10 soldiers up.
As for the rape statistics, if you compare them with all the duty stations of our military and amount of male and female soldiers. Then compare it to any city for the same amount of time I think you will find it is a very low figure.
If you think stories and replies that give it credence like this anger me you are correct for while these people sit here and type this belittling dribble it is my daughter and other parents daughters that are there in Iraq risking their lives. As a side note, my daughter as many other female soldiers do not have illegitimate toddlers sitting at home.

[tet68]

Thank you for your service.
We are proud of your dedication and commitment.
tet68.

[Happy2BMe]

It pains me deeply every time I see a woman in combat gear walking the streets of Baghdad.

Let me give you a couple of personal real-world examples that have deterred, impinged, and reduced our fighting ability where women are involved in front-line fighting.

#1: Do you recall when the Iraqis captured a female Army troop during Desert Storm? The psycological impact on our forces over this were huge. Swartzkopf himself was affected by it and it gave the enemy an "edge" over our morale he would not have had if females had been restricted from front-line fighting.

#2: I was in Desert Storm. I travelled extensivley all over Saudi Arabia. I landed at a large base and one of my first orders of business was to locate a unit commander. I went to his quarters and lo and behold - a female O-3 greeted me butt-naked at the door and asked me what I "wanted!"

#3: I've seen heavy sexual fraternization affect the morale of hundreds. It was rampant in Desert Storm. I knew of several instances where junior enlisted females and noncoms were royalty and operated carte blanche simply because who they were sleeping with. Even their bosses were mindful of this and it affected how they were handled and what jobs they were given.

#4: Prostitution. Yep - big time. In one of the large encampments I was at, we sent EIGHT MARRIED WOMEN home pregnant. They did not arrive in-country that way. Women were allowed to prance around during down time in thong bikinis strutting their stuff. Many made thousands of dollars in prostitution money. It hurt our morale and health and was always "hanging" in the air.

#5: Image, security, and personal safety. I had one enlisted female working for me who was working with foreign nationals as part of her job. One of them attempted to rape her. This cause an international incident, and a senior Saudi military official (a cousin of one of the princes) had to be called in. The girl was offered his head, hands, testicles - any or all- it was her choice. Let me tell you - this was UGLY! The kid who attempted the rape had never seen women running around in thongs before, and let's just say it got his testosterone pumped up just slightly. The kid lived, and was give 150 lashes.

I can go on and on and on. But suffice it to say, George W. Bush Sr. was our president at that time. The PC conditions have at least tripled under Clinton's entrenched homosexuals and lesbians.

[walden]

In order for women to continue to make that same contribution, do they need to be organized as they are, in mixed-gender units? I believe the Marine Corps trains men and women separately, but I'm not sure what happens after that. I'm pretty sure the other services train in mixed-gender units.

From the outside looking in, it's difficult to make judgments on these sorts of issues, and it's interesting to hear the perspective of one who deals with the issue daily.

[CasearianDaoist]

If only women were in charge of women prisoners, and only men had been in charge of male prisoners, I wonder if any of this would have happened

well with the "don't ask, don't tell" policy I think you have your answer.

[Steve Eisenberg]

It like many other news stories belittles our troops, they are not in Iraq having any parties, that I assure you.

I have a nephew in the Army, stationed in Baghdad, whose specialty is bomb disposal. Having a co-ed porno party is precisely what these guards were doing while while our Will is out there getting shot at. Miss leash-'em and her look-the-other-way commanders are a disgrace to our combat troops. I could get mad at the press for overblowing it, but right now I'm more angry at the general in charge of that out-of-control prison who gave the press something to overblow.

[Recon by Fire]

Thanks for your service.

I served with many professional female soldiers, many of whom performed their job better than many of the males.

[lentulusgracchus]

First things first, thank you for your service.

But this is not the standard, and once you put the statistics of that article into perspective, I think you will realize that the majority of female soldiers are not promiscuous baby makers who are incapable of keeping their pants up.

A couple of points. 1) It only takes one time. 2) The effects linger for months and complicate unit working relationships amazingly -- I'm talking about accidental pregnancies here. 3) The point Chavez made about the Abu Ghrabass affair, after she hauled her own pants up after going nuts about how gross the photos were, is a valid one. An experiment at Stanford University (which had to be stopped) in observing the behavior of untrained prison guards who were closely guarding volunteer "prisoners" (all were students) shows that people charged with securing prisoners have to be properly trained, just as if they were in the Corps of Engineers, and there are no shortcuts here. Anything that runs down unit discipline, even just a little, is likely to create disproportionately bad results, just as it would at an ordnance depot.

Besides, if this is what discipline is like in garrison, when things are going all our way, how are these people going to perform in a Chosin Reservoir-type situation? A British officer commented sourly during that affair, that the American military's love of creature comforts -- PX goodies and geedunk trucks everywhere -- certainly got materially in the way of a major bugout operation. It was one of the major screwups in American military history. Add about a 15% mix of female personnel to that scenario and tell me if you like what you see.