I suggest Hardtack-Oak (8.9 MT).
Posted on 05/06/2004 12:49:25 PM PDT by Cinnamon Girl
I suggest Hardtack-Oak (8.9 MT).
Please provide evidence that (a) or (b) or (c) is true for the men who were abused. So because Saudi terrorists killed Americans on 9/11, we have the right to imprison Iraqis for a range of actions and then torture them? The only thing more tortured than those Iraqis is your logic.
Pardon me johnfrink, but it is your own attitude of superior virtue which seems to have filed your head to the point that you have no memory that we are in war, and that these are prisoners that were taken in combat, their intentions were to kill our guys, to kill us.
Why are you so much more concerned about the 'dignity' murderers who have stabbed us in the back, and not concerned about the very lives of our guys? Is that clear enough for you? If anything you should be happy that there was no physical violence used. For all that you know, the information obtained saved our guys lives. May have even prevented a terrorist attack such as the Madrid train bombing.
Are these enemy's [of American] 'dignity' so much more important to you than American and western civilization people's lives? It sounds to me like you believe that we must allow the terrorist the freedom to plot, scheme and engage us in open warfare rather than having us even consider not treating them with dignity. A dignity that they evidently can not even conceive of , let alone practice with even their own fellow terrorists, let alone their fellow man.
Does murdering someone because they dein not to sacrifice blood to your god allah show that person dignity? Maybe you are right, we must dignify their demands, and become Islamfascists our selves, or else slit our own throats so that they won't have to suffer the indignity of doing so themselves.
Top left, Sgt. Donald Walters, Master Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy, Spc. James Kiehl, Pvt. Brandon Sloan. Bottom left, Pvt. Ruben Estrella-Soto, Chief Warrant Officer Johnny Mata, Pfc. Lori Piestewa, and Sgt. George Buggs, were members the 507th Maintenance Company who were ambushed March 23 near Nasiriyah, Iraq. All eight were killed in action after nine bodies were found during the rescue of Pfc. Jessica Lynch. A ninth body remains unidentified. Associated Press Photo
Likely it's a mix of motivations. Some of it is disgruntlement, for instance. I can list a bunch of other reasons.
But one in particular I think is clear: if the administration can somehow be convinced to confess to mistakes/errors/misjudgments, then it means they admit that those who disagreed with those m/e/j were right, and smarter/more wise.
And therefore they should be consulted and obeyed on all future decisions. It's part of a naked grab for practical power; and it's a way of getting that power that bypasses the electoral process.
Ever since 9/11, the powerless Left in the US, and "allies" in Europe, have been trying to set themselves up to be able to say I Told You So, but the catastrophes they predicted have universally failed to manifest. It's been a frustrating time for them.
Has the administration made mistakes? Of course it has. Has it confessed to doing so? Yes, but not the way the Left wants it to. The Bush administration acknowledges its errors through actions, not words. When it recognizes that it's done something wrong, it tries to fix it. For example, the first administrator sent to Iraq to supervise the rebuilding process was a dismal failure, and after six weeks he was politely kicked upstairs and Bremer was sent to take over.
But that's not what the Left wants. What they want is a public mea culpa, a humble abasement, delivered in somber tones with eyes downcast, after which the administration would voluntarily submit itself for flogging. That's because they want the administration to acknowledge as mistakes some major decisions which the administration clearly still thinks was right.
This isn't about "honesty" or "openness" or "accountability" or any such drivel; it's about serious disagreements regarding major political policies, and the Left has utterly failed to prevail on those issues on the political level. So they are trying to gain through the backdoor what they cannot win legitimately.
Hence the attempts at the Presidential press conference to try to badger Bush into admitting mistakes and to apologize for them.
If you can get someone to formally and publicly abase themself, then whenever you disagree with him in future you can throw that in his face: "Remember how you were wrong thus-and-so time? I Told You So then and You Didn't Listen To Me. So you should listen to me now."
That's their ultimate agenda. It's not that they want the administration to be self-critical and willing to correct the mistakes the administration itself recognizes. They want the administration to yield on major policies which the administration does not think are wrong. -- Steven Den Beste
Butch up, cup cake. The Fat Lady hasn't sung yet
| How they would treat our guys |
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| How they treat their own: |
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| And let us not forget: |
| CIA operative killed in Afghan prison riot Associated Press Posted on 11/29/2001 WASHINGTON - Rioting prisoners killed CIA officer Johnny "Mike" Spann at Mazar-e-Sharif in northern Afghanistan, the agency said Wednesday. He was the first American killed in action inside the country since U.S. bombing began seven weeks earlier. Officials recovered his body from a prison compound only after northern alliance rebels backed by U.S. airstrikes and special forces quelled an uprising by Taliban and al-Qaida prisoners. Spann, 32, leaves a wife, two daughters and an infant son. |
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Pentagon Prison Report Details Inmate Attacks on MPs Largely forgotten in the hysterical media coverage of the Iraqi prison abuse scandal is this tidbit: the vast majority of the alleged abuses were committed against the most hardened terrorist suspects and known troublemakers, many of whom took part in prison uprisings that put the lives of U.S. military guards at risk. Section 34 of the now notorious Taguba Report begins: "The following riots, escapes, and shootings have been documented and reported to this Investigation Team." Here's a few selected highlights: * June 9, 2003 - Riot and shootings of five detainees at Camp Cropper. (115th MP Battalion) Several detainees allegedly rioted after a detainee was subdued by MPs of the 115th MP Battalion after striking a guard in compound B of Camp Cropper. A 15-6 investigation by 1LT Magowan (115th MP Battalion, Platoon Leader) concluded that a detainee had acted up and hit an MP. After being subdued, one of the MPs took off his DCU top and flexed his muscles to the detainees, which further escalated the riot. The MPs were overwhelmed and the guards fired lethal rounds to protect the life of the compound MPs, whereby 5 detainees were wounded. * November 24, 2003 - Riot and shooting of 12 detainees . . . Several detainees allegedly began to riot at about 1300 in all of the compounds at the Ganci encampment. This resulted in the shooting deaths of 3 detainees, 9 wounded detainees, and 9 injured US Soldiers. A 15-6 investigation by COL Bruce Falcone (220th MP Brigade, Deputy Commander) concluded that the detainees rioted in protest of their living conditions, that the riot turned violent, the use of non-lethal force was ineffective, and, after the 320th MP Battalion CDR executed "Golden Spike,” the emergency containment plan, the use of deadly force was authorized. * November 24, 2003 - Shooting of detainee at Abu Ghraib(320th MP Battalion). A detainee allegedly had a pistol in his cell and around 1830 an extraction team shot him with less than lethal and lethal rounds in the process of recovering the weapon. A 15-6 investigation by COL Bruce Falcone (220th Brigade, Deputy Commander) concluded that one of the detainees in tier 1A of the Hard Site had gotten a pistol and a couple of knives from an Iraqi Guard working in the encampment. Immediately upon receipt of this information, an ad-hoc extraction team consisting of MP and MI personnel conducted what they called a routine cell search, which resulted in the shooting of an MP and the detainee. * December 17 2003 - Shooting by non-lethal means of detainee from Abu Ghraib (320th MP Battalion). Several detainees allegedly assaulted an MP at 1459 inside the Ganci Encampment, Abu Ghraib (BCCF). An SIR was initiated by SSG Matash (320th MP BRIGADE, S-3 Section). The SIR indicated that three detainees assaulted an MP, which resulted in the use of a non-lethal shot that calmed the situation. [End of Excerpt] Another incident much ballyhooed in the press as a "murder," looks a whole lot different in context of the Taguba Report, which says that on June 13, 2003: "30-40 detainees rioted and pelted three interior MP guards with rocks. One guard was injured and the tower guards fired lethal rounds at the rioters injuring 7 and killing 1 detainee." No wonder our understaffed military police units in Iraq felt they had to resort to intimidation and humiliation tactics in a bid to keep this gang of violent criminals and bloodthirsty terrorists at bay.
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Also, check out post #76 :o
Next, surround Fallujah in every way. Nothing goes out on land, by air or underground. Give them 24 hours to turn over ALL insurgents and individuals identified as opposing our troops in any way. If the request is not honored on the second 24 hours later, do the same to that city. Biblical history indicates the people WILL comply.
Repeat as necessary.
Either demonstrate overwhelming strength and resolute will, or get ready to die because the whole world is going to come for us. I am not willing to die at their hands. I am more than willing to demonstrate resolute will and effect that will. If only I had the means. Some Americans are in desperate need of severe punishment. I would without hesitation effect that. A HUGE number of people in the world need to learn that we mean business and it is no longer a game. When are we going to get leadership? When?
I've been thinking the same thing. The commanding officer appears to be less-than-feminine. This may be a ploy by the homosexual community within the military to undermine and wipe out Bush and bring their people to power. I have a gut feeling something is VERY fishy with this whole deal. I just can't believe that a cross-section of our soldiers would do this. It has to have been planned for a specific purpose. And, a LOT of pictures conveniently taken and quickly distributed. The whole thing reeks of conspiracy. It is time for drastic action. Evil is all around us.
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