The small-town girl who ended up on every channel (Lynndie England – Leash Girl)

The Baltimore Sun via SMH ^ | May 7, 2004 | John Woestendiek in Fort Ashby, West Virginia

[dead]

Lynndie England loved a good storm. During tornado warnings her mother would have to drag her back inside the house. Her teachers say she wanted a career as a storm-chaser.

Now, the perfect storm has found her.

From hometown hero to the reviled woman holding the leash . . . US Reserve
soldier Lynndie England with an Iraqi prisoner in Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison.
Photo: The Washington Post

The petite 21-year-old army reservist from the quiet crossroads town of Fort Ashby in West Virginia is the most visible character in the controversy over the abuse of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison. She is the thumbs-up girl, the pixie-ish, T-shirted soldier, smiling, pointing and posing for the camera with naked and humiliated inmates.

Soon after the release of the photographs, Terrie England was on the telephone with her daughter while watching television.

Full story ...

[fooman]

There is clearly a lack of proportionality here

[Law is not justice but process]

Your outrage is well directed, but I am a prosecutor and I believe that bad people are the ultimate reason things like this happen. I believe the measure of a system is how it responds to the actions of bad people. Under Saddam those who were effective at torture and humiliation of prisoners were promoted and decorated for their actions. Under our constitutional republic such actions MUST must be met not with approbation but with condemnation AND punishment.

A nation deserves no shame for producing bad people: I bet there are thousands in the U.S. today who are morally worse than Hitler or Saddam. A nation does deserve shame if they fail to punish bad actions by any person or, much worse, they allow a bad person to lead and become accomplices in their leaders crimes (Hitler did not carry out the Holocaust alone, it took the efforts of a significant proportion of the German nation and the inaction of the rest).

Fair minded people will judge our reaction to the actions of these prison guards rather than holding all Americans responsible for the reprehensible actions of a few. (Note: Al Jazeera and the far left do not count as fair-minded people, so brace yourself for a propaganda blitzkrieg)

I would argue that this is as much an opportunity to demonstrate to the world how the rule of law is to be maintained as it is a scandal. I think the ultimate imprisonment of those proven responsible will be a strong message to the world that democracies do not tolerate such actions. I suspect Lynndie England will be in the vanguard of the parade to Fort Leavenworth, and that she probably deserves to be.

[r9etb]

The one exception I will make to that statement is the outrage shown by our military people. They feeled betrayed by the idiots in these pictures. I think that outrage is justified.

I care about it because this incident will probably prompt a few salamikaze fence-sitters to try their hand at killing Americans. All it takes is a few stupid f*cks to make a real mess. Sounds like we've discovered a few stupid f*cks in the MPs.

[WOSG]

"The guards become oppressors, and the prisoners become the oppressed."

Let's be clear about one thing: One of the prisoners identified had killed coalition forces, then was taken prisoner, then incited a prison riot, and then was punished for it. Nobody was, or should have been, "playing" anything.

The unprofessionalism of how this was handled needs to be met with reprimands and condemnation, but to broad brush call our enemies killing our soldiers the 'oppressed' is absurd.

Most of these men are terrorists who killed in cowardly ways and deserve death, and they wont get it because we are too kind to them and their families.

The same cannot be said for how they treated the Italian civilian they kidnapped. we may be signatories to the Geneva convention, but our enemy is signed up with the evil tactics of terrorism.

[cake_crumb]

"I'd break her neck first, though!"

Me too.

Now I wonder where the outrage is over the blindfolded Iraqi American contractor who was paraded on Arab television. We know why it's absent: it's the "American" part.

[Not A Snowbird]

This soldier was a private under the guidance of older, senior noncoms and officers. She was following their lead. Unless she is more knowledgeable and wise than they are, it is unlikelikely she would ever know in the short term what she was actually doing. Now she will be told that what she's done was wrong and why it was. They were not torturing and killing prisoners. It is doubtful she could have told the rest of the bunch that they were doing it all wrong and they should do what she suggests.

You misunderstand; I was speaking in general terms, not about this specific situation.

We truly don't know whose lead she was following, or what she was told by whom. I do question her personal sense of ethics in getting caught up in what she probably thought was just a little bit of fun, but she is very young. I'm willing to make some allowances for lack of maturity.

Repercussions should be proportionate to the level of involvement and the grade of the individual. I imagine she will get a slap, while those above her will be dealt with more harshly.

[Skooz]

Oh, yeah. If she plays her cards right, she could be legendary in certain perv circles and retire a very rich young lady.

[Law is not justice but process]

"The fact that there is more outrage (even in the US it seems) over these pictures than over the smoldering contractors hanging from a bridge tells
me that the outrage is manufactured."

Word.

[WOSG]

"I hope she goes to prison for a long, long, time."

And the people who kill coalition soldiers through roadside bombs, what punishment should they get?

long long time?

but with Cable TV?

[SLB]

It is clear we are totally over-reacting now in the media. Some prisoners were bad, and some idiot officer somewhere decided that this kind of humiliation was appropriate. It wasnt, it was abhorrent. But it was an exception not a rule, and now we have huge amounts of handwringing, with no sense of balance nor context. No sense of balance that this humiliation is far less serious than the brutal tortures that are regular in saddam's Iraq or even in other Arab countries today. (eg practices like throwing people to lions, forcing gasoline in them and then shooting them and watching them explode, the 'grenade in the mouth' trick, the acid pourings on flesh, the burning tortures, horrible beatings, etc.

Great way of putting all of this into prespective. I spent a year in Vietnam, we did not torture the North Vietnamese we captured, but I am sure some did. Everyday I hear of this atrocity or that torture that happened in WWII, Korea or Vietnam, but they are the exception and not the rule. The last time I was in Germany I had an elderly German for a friend. He had spent most of WWII as a POW in Mississippi. He was first captured by the Brits in Africa and then transferred to US custody. All treated him with respect, but there were others who were not treated well on both sides.

Again, we have to put this into prespective, prosecute the guility to the maximum allowed and then get on with the war.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

I think we need hearings in order to investigate what Senator Byrd has been doing for West Virginia.

[fooman]

Yep. Well said. If we are gonna have women in some positions then they must be treated equally.

[AppyPappy]

WE are better than this.

It's war. If my child were riding in a Hummvee around Fallujah waiting for a roadside bomb to send him to me in a plastic bag, I would care even less about "hazing" in a prison full of terrorists.

[Chief_Joe]

Is there any real proof that Jessica Lynch had photographs taken of her in any compromising situations? Are you only quoting rumors, or do you have some concrete evidence?
 

I think, sadly, that the pictures that came out with Jessica doing a striptease for a few guys shocked a great many of us, and they've been posted all over the Internet. I used Jessica's name however to only illustrate a point that many women have different reasons for joining the military than men. It's not sexist to say what everyone knows, and we don't have to be so PC to pretend that there's no difference between introducing a woman or man into a male-dominated fighting unit.

[Dead Dog]

Nothing happened to the Iraqi that he didn't let happen. Don't forget the dirt monkey did everything he could do to kill her, her fellow solders, and us. His self esteem should be the least of our worries. The information he knows is worth more to us then his ego, much less the life left in his flesh. This ain't torture.

[WOSG]

"The fact that there is more outrage (even in the US it seems) over these pictures than over the smoldering contractors hanging from a bridge tells
me that the outrage is manufactured."

Well said.

At first I was ashamed and astonished by this story. And saddened that this stupidity and callous depravity would harm our soldiers. Now, with the media over-reaction including rediculous demands to fire Rumsfeld, I see that this is just another "Pinata" of the anti-Bush crowd, as well as the "anti-Zionist" arabist corner. (did you know that the story of remprimands came out much earlier, but it was just a media blip because there were no pictures involved; Fred Barnes made that point on Fox yesterday.)

So now I come down this way: Bush has said the right things. DoD is *doing* the right things to correct this and bringing miscreants to account. Let's move on, aware that despite this unfortunate case, it is the exception not the rule, and aware that we are living up to standards of humanity towards our enemies that few in warfare have lived up to, and aware that our human rights standards are better than most Arab countries today.

[WOSG]

Thanx and dittos.

And thanks for your service. If it was 12 mos in Vietnam, I guess that makes you 2.5X the hero John Kerry was. :-)

[Godfollow]

I'm not ready to judge this woman... if this is how we get information from these animals, then so beit. I am for us, not them. This may seem tawdry to some but I'd bet if these were pictures of the WTC bombers trying to get intelligence before something else happened we would not be peeping a word. Only the Democrats would push this so far as to harm America so as to obtain power.

[cake_crumb]

"Let's be clear about one thing: One of the prisoners identified had killed coalition forces, then was taken prisoner, then incited a prison riot, and then was punished for it. Nobody was, or should have been, 'playing' anything."

They don't care about that. They're too busy being "outraged". You'll be flamed for a knucle-dragging, my country good even if it's bad, flag-waving redneck. The rest of your post:

"The unprofessionalism of how this was handled needs to be met with reprimands and condemnation, but to broad brush call our enemies killing our soldiers the 'oppressed' is absurd."

will be ignored.

I've been saying the same things for days and getting flamed for it by hyperventilating FReepers, most of whom I've never seen post before.

[Dead Dog]

Damned right. This girl does not look like she is enjoying it. The pic was staged, she didn't tear his close off, ravage him, then put a leash on him. I'd bet the intent was to photograph him, so he can see the pic later in an attempt to break his sense of self worth. Once he betrays himself, he will betray his comrades...and that will save our sons and daughters.