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To: Right Wing Professor
 Find me a single OT manuscript dated to the 5th century BC.
 
Oh no you don't!  I'm not the one who made THIS assertion:
 
It's a very late transcription of a much older oral tradition, by an unsophisticated and relatively primitive middle-eastern tribe.
 
Does THIS sound familiar?
"Just because we've not FOUND it yet, doesn't mean it isn't there."
 
 
You've called THESE verses, lies:
 
Exodus 17:14
   Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write this on a scroll as something to be remembered and make sure that Joshua hears it, because I will completely blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven."
 
Exodus 24:12
  The LORD said to Moses, "Come up to me on the mountain and stay here, and I will give you the tablets of stone, with the law and commands I have written for their instruction."
 
Exodus 34:1
  The LORD said to Moses, "Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke.
 
Exodus 34:27-28
 27.  Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel."
 28.  Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments.
 
Deuteronomy 6:9
   Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.
 
Deuteronomy 10:2-4
 2.  I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke. Then you are to put them in the chest."
 3.  So I made the ark out of acacia wood and chiseled out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I went up on the mountain with the two tablets in my hands.
 4.  The LORD wrote on these tablets what he had written before, the Ten Commandments he had proclaimed to you on the mountain, out of the fire, on the day of the assembly. And the LORD gave them to me.
 
Deuteronomy 17:18
   When he takes the throne of his kingdom, he is to write for himself on a scroll a copy of this law, taken from that of the priests, who are Levites.
 
Deuteronomy 27:2-3
 2.  When you have crossed the Jordan into the land the LORD your God is giving you, set up some large stones and coat them with plaster.
 3.  Write on them all the words of this law when you have crossed over to enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the LORD, the God of your fathers, promised you.
 
Deuteronomy 27:7-8
And you shall write very clearly all the words of this law on these stones you have set up."
 
Deuteronomy 28:58-59
 58.  If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name--the LORD your God--
 59.  the LORD will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses.
 
Deuteronomy 29:20-21
 20.  The LORD will never be willing to forgive him; his wrath and zeal will burn against that man. All the curses written in this book will fall upon him, and the LORD will blot out his name from under heaven.
 21.  The LORD will single him out from all the tribes of Israel for disaster, according to all the curses of the covenant written in this Book of the Law.
Deuteronomy 31:24-26
 24.  After Moses finished writing in a book the words of this law from beginning to end,
 25.  he gave this command to the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the LORD:
 26.  "Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.
 
Joshua 8:30-31
 30.  Then Joshua built on Mount Ebal an altar to the LORD, the God of Israel,
 31.  as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded the Israelites. He built it according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses--an altar of uncut stones, on which no iron tool had been used. On it they offered to the LORD burnt offerings and sacrificed fellowship offerings.
 
Joshua 8:32
   There, in the presence of the Israelites, Joshua copied on stones the law of Moses, which he had written.
 
Joshua 23:6
 "Be very strong; be careful to obey all that is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, without turning aside to the right or to the left.
 
1 Kings 2:2-4
 2.  "I am about to go the way of all the earth," he said. "So be strong, show yourself a man,
 3.  and observe what the LORD your God requires: Walk in his ways, and keep his decrees and commands, his laws and requirements, as written in the Law of Moses, so that you may prosper in all you do and wherever you go,
 4.  and that the LORD may keep his promise to me: `If your descendants watch how they live, and if they walk faithfully before me with all their heart and soul, you will never fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.'
 
2 Kings 14:6
   Yet he did not put the sons of the assassins to death, in accordance with what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses where the LORD commanded: "Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sins."
 
2 Chronicles 23:18
   Then Jehoiada placed the oversight of the temple of the LORD in the hands of the priests, who were Levites, to whom David had made assignments in the temple, to present the burnt offerings of the LORD as written in the Law of Moses, with rejoicing and singing, as David had ordered.
 
Ezra 3:2
 Then Jeshua son of Jozadak and his fellow priests and Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel and his associates began to build the altar of the God of Israel to sacrifice burnt offerings on it, in accordance with what is written in the Law of Moses the man of God.
 
Ezra 6:18
  And they installed the priests in their divisions and the Levites in their groups for the service of God at Jerusalem, according to what is written in the Book of Moses.
 
Nehemiah 8:14-15
 14.  They found written in the Law, which the LORD had commanded through Moses, that the Israelites were to live in booths during the feast of the seventh month
 15.  and that they should proclaim this word and spread it throughout their towns and in Jerusalem: "Go out into the hill country and bring back branches from olive and wild olive trees, and from myrtles, palms and shade trees, to make booths"--as it is written.
 
Nehemiah 13:1-2
 1.  On that day the Book of Moses was read aloud in the hearing of the people and there it was found written that no Ammonite or Moabite should ever be admitted into the assembly of God,
 2.  because they had not met the Israelites with food and water but had hired Balaam to call a curse down on them. (Our God, however, turned the curse into a blessing.)
 
Daniel 9:11
   All Israel has transgressed your law and turned away, refusing to obey you.   "Therefore the curses and sworn judgments written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against you.
 
Daniel 9:13
   Just as it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us, yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our sins and giving attention to your truth.
 
 
 
...an unsophisticated and relatively primitive middle-eastern tribe?
 
I think not!

302 posted on 05/07/2004 1:37:49 PM PDT by Elsie (Truth is violated by falsehood, but it is outraged by silence.)
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To: Elsie
> ...an unsophisticated and relatively primitive middle-eastern tribe?

The ability to write is some five or so thousand years old, and is not the marker of an advanced culture. Especially when one considers that the Israelites were surrounds by much higher civilizations, such as the Egyptians, Babylonians and Phoenecians.
305 posted on 05/07/2004 1:49:17 PM PDT by orionblamblam
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To: Elsie
None of this proves anything, since the sources for most of your verses have an earliest date A.D., not BC. I can say that in 1913 I dated Mata Hari; that does nothing to prove I was alive in 1913. I would go so far as to call it lies, but as a society evolves it changes its traditions to accommodate the present reality. So once the materials started to be written down, it is logical that they referred to earlier accounts as written accounts.

You're right; just because we haven't found them yet, doesn't mean they don't exist, but it is surely worrying that, given the other very ancient written textual material we have, and the massive archaeological efforts that have been devoted to the holy land, we don't have much earlier biblical texts. We have Egyptian papyrus with writing from 2400 BC. Why nothing written in Hebrew until more than two millenia later?

308 posted on 05/07/2004 2:03:48 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Elsie; Right Wing Professor
In the beginning was the Word.

Information was critical to the Creation of life. And as most microbiologists are discovering, (Of which Darwin was ignorant) all of the little creatures are machines with purpose and multiple integrated systems. Lots of the Word in them.

Were they just dumb goatherds?

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

2000 year old highly sophisticated scholar revealed above.

322 posted on 05/07/2004 3:08:18 PM PDT by bondserv (Alignment is critical!)
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