By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent
WASHINGTON - President Bush told a skeptical Arab world on Wednesday that the treatment of Iraqi prisoners by some members of the U.S. military was "abhorrent" and does not represent the America he knows. He conceded mistakes but stopped short of apologizing in interviews with two Arabic-language TV stations.
"We don't tolerate these type of abuses," Bush told Al-Arabiya television, a satellite channel based in the United Arab Emirates. He said there was "more than an allegation, in this case, actual abuse — we saw the pictures. There will be a full investigation."
Seeking to counter photographs beamed around the world of U.S. soldiers gloating over naked detainees in demeaning positions, Bush sat for interviews with both Al-Arabiya, which is popular around the Arab world, and with Al-Hurra, a U.S.-government funded station.
He used the word "abhorrent" in both interviews to describe the activities in Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad, a notorious prison during Saddam Hussein's regime now run by the U.S. Army.
Bush dismissed, however, any implication that Americans were no better in their treatment of prisoners than Saddam.
"A dictator wouldn't be answering questions about this," he told Al-Arabiya.
"The people in the Middle East must understand this is horrible, but we're dealing with it in way that will bring confidence to not only our citizens, which is very important, but confidence to people in the world that this situation will be rectified and justice will be done," he said.
The interviews were broadcast in the region late Wednesday afternoon.
"There will be investigations. People will be brought to justice," Bush told Al-Hurra. "The actions of these few people do not reflect the hearts of the American people."
"The American people are just as appalled" as Iraqis, Bush said in the same interview. "People in Iraq must understand that I view those practices as abhorrent. They must also understand that what took place in that prison does not represent the America that I know," Bush said.
"The America I know is a compassionate country that believes in freedom. The America I know cares about every individual. The America I know has sent troops into Iraq to promote freedom — good honorable citizens that are helping Iraqis everyday," he said.
Bush said he retained confidence in Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, telling Al-Hurra he told Rumsfeld earlier Wednesday to "find the truth and tell the Iraqi people and the world the truth. We have nothing to hide."
Bush's appearance on Arab television came the day after the Army disclosed that it is conducting criminal investigations of 10 prisoner deaths in U.S. custody in Iraq and Afghanistan, plus another 10 abuse cases.
In addition, the deaths of two Iraqi prisoners already have been ruled homicides. In one case, a soldier was court-martialed, reduced in rank and discharged from the Army. In the other homicide, a CIA contract interrogator's conduct has been referred to the Justice Department for criminal prosecution, the Army said, although an intelligence official said the CIA Inspector General was still examining that case.
As Bush spoke, this official, who requested anonymity, also said Wednesday that the CIA Inspector General is investigating yet another two deaths involving CIA interrogators. That brought to 14 the number prisoner deaths already blamed on Americans or under U.S. investigation.
Bush said in both interviews that the U.S. inquiry would look into whether abuse took place in other prisons.
"I want to know the full extent of the operations in Iraq, the prison operations. We want to make sure that if there is a systemic problem -- in other words, if there's a problem systemwide -- that we stop the practices," Bush told Al-Arabiya.
In the Al-Hurra interview, Bush said it was important for "the people of Iraq to know that everything is not perfect. That mistakes are made. But in a democracy, as well, those mistakes will be investigated, and people will be brought to justice."
Administration officials have tried to assure the American public and the world that the abuse of prisoners at the prison was an aberration, and that guilty parties would be dealt with swiftly and firmly.
Bush said that the United States would cooperate with the international Red Cross.
Asked about the United States' practice of pointing out human rights abuses in other countries, he told Al-Hurra, "We ... say to those governments, `clean up your act.' And that's precisely what America is doing."
The disclosure of the prisoner abuse — condemned throughout the world — came just two months before the United States is to turn over civilian authority to a new Iraqi interim government.
Bush said the U.S.-led coalition's decision to transfer security duties in the volatile city of Fallujah to an Iraqi battalion led by one of Saddam's former military leaders should not be a message to the Iraqi people that the United States was lowering its expectations for freedom in Iraq.
"Quite the contrary," Bush told Al-Hurra. "We're raising expectations."
Bush also expressed continued confidence that a peaceful Palestinian state can emerge from the Israel-Palestinian conflict, defending his support — criticized across the Arab world — for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's territorial plans.
"I felt that a withdrawal from the Gaza by the Israeli prime minister as well as the withdrawal from four settlements from the West Bank by the Israeli prime minister was a step toward peace," Bush told Al-Hurra.
U.S. Department of State - Secretary Colin L. Powell
May 5, 2004
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, as you know, up on Capitol Hill, senators are furious that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld did not tell them about the situation regarding the Iraqi prison abuse. Even as it was about to air on 60 Minutes, they had known about that specific account for weeks.
I'm wondering, first of all, when you heard about this, you have to deal, obviously, with the international reaction to this. And also, where ultimately does responsibility lie? Does it lie with those that supervise the prisoners or much higher up the chain of command?
SECRETARY POWELL: It remains to be seen what the total extent of the problem is, and then you start to follow it up the chain of command and the chain of accountability. And I'm confident they will certainly do that.
Keep in mind that General Sanchez launched an investigation of this matter the day after he heard about it, in the early part of the year. And if you check General Mark Kimmitt's briefings over this past several months, you will see that General Kimmitt noted in his briefings that such investigations were underway and he even made an announcement of when some people had been charged. I think that announcement was made publicly in Baghdad on the 20th of March.
So investigations have been underway; actions has been taken by the chain of command during this period. It was the photos themselves that caused the big stir, rightly so, when we could all see what the investigations were about and what people were being accused of having participated in.
And so we are all terribly distressed and shocked by those photos and by what those photos said about the manner in which the troops there were doing their job. And as you have heard the President, you have heard Secretary Rumsfeld, myself and others say, it's unacceptable. But we are a nation that believes in justice. We are a nation that's governed by the rule of law, and nowhere is that more the case than in the Armed Forces of the United States.
And so Secretary Rumsfeld is hard at work seeing what other investigatory efforts should be put into this matter. He is in touch with members of Congress. I'm sure I'll have a chance to discuss it when I'm up on the Hill this afternoon, as well.
We want to get all the information out so that the American people understand what's happened and also to make sure that our friends in the Arab world, especially, know that we are a nation of laws, we are a nation of justice, and this kind of action and misbehavior will not be tolerated and will be dealt with in the firmest possible manner.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, you've called -- you've said that you're sure this is isolated, this incident. What makes you so sure that it's isolated?
SECRETARY POWELL: Right now, it seems to be isolated in this particular place, with respect to this -- this incident, if I can call it an incident. The photos you have seen that dealt with this particular wing of that prison, I don't know that there are more individuals involved in that beyond what the investigating officer found.
Now, we are also undertaking a broad review of all of our detention facilities in Baghdad, as well as elsewhere, in Afghanistan, and reviewing our procedures in Guantanamo to make sure we haven't overlooked anything. But with respect to that wing of the Abu Gharib prison that has caused all of the attention, I've seen nothing to suggest that the individuals involved in that constitute a larger group than has already been identified by the military.
But, once again, I'll have to yield to Secretary Rumsfeld and his colleagues to give the definitive answer on that.
Okay, one more. Then I've got to run.
QUESTION: The United States is hard at work on trying to get more countries into Iraq to provide security for the UN, this multinational force.
SECRETARY POWELL: Yeah.
QUESTION: Do you think that the reports of the alleged mistreatment of these Iraqi prisoners might have a blow to your efforts in that sense?
SECRETARY POWELL: I don't think so. We're hard at work on this. And I think people understand that if they want to see a safe Iraq, an Iraq that is sovereign once again, they need to help with the process. And one of the important areas in which help is needed is to assist the UN in doing its job in Iraq to help get organized for elections.
And so I hope that this would not cause anybody to hold back any support that they might have provided. What we're asking for is people to help the Iraqi people, and you help them through participating in a multinational force, and especially that component of the force that will deal with providing security to the United Nations personnel, who we expect to be returning in some number.
Thank you.
2004/492 [End]
Excerpt:
Centom Briefing March 22, 2004
Q Yeah. Hi. Two quick questions for General Kimmitt. The first question is, just following up on a question raised the other day by a CNN journalist about access to the Abu Gharib prison, and you had mentioned go to -- ask the Red Cross directly about their access. And the Red Cross has the policy of not speaking, specifically because they know that they will be denied access if they do. So I wanted to raise that as an issue, if you're aware of that.
The second is, I'd like to find out if you know anything about heightened security concerns of the last 24 hours, specifically rumors that car bombs have entered Baghdad, targeting Western-owned hotels.
GEN. KIMMITT: On the first question, about the ICRC, if that's their policy, that's their policy. It remains our policy that we will not subject the detainees in Abu Gharib or any of our detention facilities to public humiliation or ridicule. And as a result, we will continue to treat them in am manner consistent with that, as we treat enemy prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions.
As to the heightened security concerns, we always take a look at all the intelligence that comes into our organizations from various means, and we take the appropriate force protection measures as a result.