[Qwinn]

Hodar:

I would disagree with you. There is no reason to dismiss abstinence as a practical possibility unless one feels that human beings are animals utterly dominated by their instincts. Current statistics showing that abstinence is actually gaining ground as a respected form of birth control also rebuts your perspective. The point being made is that it doesn't matter how common sex is, that does not absolve those from engaging in it from responsibility for their actions.

THAT SAID -

1forall,

I disagree with -you- in that you seem to find no fault in a woman purposefully, fraudulently telling a man that she was on birth control. I can think of no other circumstance in which fraud and deception over such an important issue are themselves shriven of moral culpability. That's just as bad as someone claiming that they couldn't -help- but have sex so they can't be held responsible. Yes - sex carries with it responsibility, but, using birth control -is- a means of addressing that responsibility (maybe not the best method, but it certainly is -a- method). If a woman really is taking birth control, and it fails, that's one thing. But if a man is -deliberately misled- into believing that birth control is being used, and then he is held fully responsible with no attendant rights in the resulting birth, he should IMO be entirely within his rights to charge the woman with fraud and have at least his legal financial obligations commuted. Otherwise, you are creating an environment that specifically encourages exactly such fraud without repercussion.

Qwinn

[Hodar]

There is no reason to dismiss abstinence as a practical possibility unless one feels that human beings are animals utterly dominated by their instincts.

Within limits; this is a factual state of the human experience. Do you think that a majority of inmates are gay, when given a choice? But, sodomy in prison is the norm. I'm not saying we have no control over our urges; but among the basic instincts humans have, sex ranks in the top 3. I believe the hierarchy is food, shelter and sex.

And you are correct, abstinence is gaining ground .... among high school students. Even there, the promises made, and the promises kept are pretty low. Besides, what would you expect a 16 year old to say to their parents? But, if you would look at the age group I specified, this is beyond the High School age. I was referring to adults, not adolescents.

Everyone has a 'mad scientist' dream. Mine would be to release a virus into the water that would make the default state of humanity sterile. In my 'mad scientist' world, pregnancy would only be possible if both adults ate a massive dose of :asprin, vitamin C, something readily available and cheap. Thus, every pregnancy would be intentionally planned (both parents would have to consume 6 vitamin C tablets for a few days, or asprin, or something of that sort). There would be no unwanted pregnancies. STD's may spread; but babies wouldn't be thrust upon foolish teenagers, or people who neither want nor can afford another child.