Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Torture of Iraqi Prisoners Raises Many Questions
GOPUSA ^ | 5/3/04 | Carol Devine-Molin

Posted on 05/03/2004 11:33:42 AM PDT by tornado100

We were all horrified by the trophy photos of Iraqi prisoners being tortured by American troops. The images of Iraqi detainees, some hooded, some naked - having been beaten, stomped on, urinated on, sexually abused, etc. - have been splashed across the media and are now indelibly engraved in our psyches.

Realistically, shouldn't we have expected it? Granted, these are atrocious behaviors perpetrated by a miniscule number of soldiers, with about a half-dozen reservists facing charges to date. And there's no dispute that it represents a public relations nightmare for the US and its partners in Iraq, with Islamic, and global opinion for that matter, enraged by the heinous images. However, atrocities and barbarism have happened in every war since time immemorial - In today's vernacular, we often attribute it to "combat stress" and the attending proclivity to thoroughly dehumanize the enemy. No, it doesn't excuse the abhorrent behaviors, but it's certainly part and parcel of warfare even if it affects few of our troops. Moreover, the criminality under discussion must be promptly addressed by the military justice system, with the perpetrators properly punished.

The barbarity of American and other coalition soldiers, limited as it might be, is in direct reaction to the particular nature of the warfare they're up against, and which embraces every dirty trick in the book -The traditional rules of engagement on the battlefield have been tossed aside. Rather, in Iraq, we see our enemies readily blur the lines between soldiers and civilians, use woman and children as human shields, and kidnap, torture and mutilate our fine troops and adjunct private-sector personnel. Iraqi attacks are alternately dubbed as terrorism, guerrilla warfare, low intensity warfare, asymmetric warfare and even the relatively newly coined term of the past decade, "fourth generation warfare". The latter phrase especially connotes escalating sectarian violence by dogmatic thugs, which certainly epitomizes the current situation in Iraq.

However, there are now fascinating media stories circulating that directly implicate the Army's intelligence officers in the terrible abuses that occurred at Abu Ghraib prison, located near Baghdad - sadistic abuses that include sodomizing a prisoner with a broomstick and threatening another with live electrical wires. Reportedly, it was military intelligence that encouraged the Army reservists to participate in acts of torture and mistreatment, as a means of facilitating the interrogation of prisoners. This is where it gets very interesting and opens the subject to real debate.

Just how far is western civilization willing to go in its interrogation practices during times of war? Our society must seriously consider this question. Israeli intelligence officials, most notably the internal-security force known as Shin Bet, have reportedly eschewed broken bones/teeth and beaten bodies in favor of sophisticated information extraction methods including: a) sleep and sensory-stimuli deprivation, and b) infliction of pain and discomfort without permanent bodily damage such as the hooding of prisoners with foul-smelling materials and the use of severe shaking and non-stop, loud music that are disorienting. (Now the Israelis might indeed go beyond that - which is what I suspect -- but I'm just citing their official stance). Frankly, I think most Americans would feel comfortable with the Israeli interrogation methods noted here, and which American forces already largely employ. In any event, although most Americans understand that sodomizing prisoners is over-the-line and morally loathsome, it leaves opened the question as to what are acceptable, and fruitful, interrogation techniques especially when collection of intelligence is paramount with lives at stake.

Lastly, Americans are thrilled at the seemingly miraculous recovery of American hostage Thomas Hamill, a contractor with a Halliburton subsidiary, who was kidnapped on April 9th in an insurgent assault on his convoy. Initial reports indicate that he escaped from a building where he was being held by Iraqi insurgents and managed to make his way to US forces in an area south of Tikrit on Sunday, May 2nd.

Hamill's kidnappers, who were undoubtedly a bunch of ruthless thugs that murdered others in the convoy, were threatening to burn him alive if their demands were not met. Thankfully, Hamill was able to escape. However - and this is a hypothetical for the sake of provoking thought - if we were fully cognizant that we had a prisoner in custody that knew the location of Hamill's whereabouts during his captivity, just how far would be willing to go in extracting this information? It's just a reasonable point of inquiry, under the circumstances.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: armyintelligence; combatstress; iraqipow
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-118 next last

1 posted on 05/03/2004 11:33:43 AM PDT by tornado100
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: tornado100
Maybe it's me, but these photos never seemed to me to be 'torture'. No physical harm was involved.

Yes they showed extremely innapropriate behavior towards prisoners or war, but no one got fed into a plastic shredder or anything.
2 posted on 05/03/2004 11:36:37 AM PDT by Mr. K (ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,I stole this cuz its funny,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tornado100
Unfortunately, the media will exaggerate everything and fail to provide context.
3 posted on 05/03/2004 11:39:17 AM PDT by tornado100
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tornado100
And there's no dispute that it represents a public relations nightmare for the US and its partners in Iraq, with Islamic, and global opinion for that matter, enraged by the heinous image.


Although I was horrified to see americans doing this, I am not worried about public relations with islam or iraq in particular.

Islamic opinion means nothing when compared to what those within islam have doen to innocent people, much less war prisoners. What about what the palestinians are doing, or saddam and his followers or the taliban?

Thats like the pot calling the kettle black.

As for the rest of the world, the ones who dont like us will keep not liking us, those that do will see the matter is being handled and move on.
4 posted on 05/03/2004 11:40:54 AM PDT by Iron Matron (Those who serve two masters also have two faces.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr. K
The behaviors do fall into the category of mild torture and mistreatment, but the media will exaggerate.
5 posted on 05/03/2004 11:41:41 AM PDT by tornado100
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Mr. K
Correct. Saying "torture" is inflammatory (which is probably the agenda), while "mistreatment" is likely the better word.
6 posted on 05/03/2004 11:49:07 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: tornado100
More apologies for the perverted actions of certain members of the United States military. Its hilarious to see the hawks try to spin it as torture, which I assume they seem as better, when clearly the pictures represented some sick homoerotica.

Hawks should be ashamed of themselves to be associated with such sickos.
7 posted on 05/03/2004 11:49:22 AM PDT by JohnGalt (Chalabi Republicans: Soft on Treason)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tornado100
"Realistically, shouldn't we have expected it?"

A: No.

We expect high standards to be met. That is why we are better than terrorists.

Insofar as we have expectations to the contrary, (mankind having fallen), that is why we have military justice, which I trust will be dispatched on these miscreants forthwith.

8 posted on 05/03/2004 11:50:23 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Mullahs swinging from lamp posts.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brad Cloven
It appears they received little more than a slap on the wrist when they should have faced the firing squad.

Nothing will happen, no surprise, but the question what will you do?
9 posted on 05/03/2004 11:54:55 AM PDT by JohnGalt (Chalabi Republicans: Soft on Treason)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: tornado100
how come we are not outraged by the islamic militants who take innocent civilians hostage and threaten to burn them alive on national t.v.

if your friend had just been killed by a islamic terrorist the day before, you are not going to be too gentle to the prisonors you take.

we have no idea what our soldiers are going through over there. to put these prisionors through a little humiliation is no where near the torture that they would inflict upon an american prisionor.
10 posted on 05/03/2004 11:57:37 AM PDT by benson106
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tornado100
Agree, there has been loose use of the term torture. I suggest a viewing of Saddam's favorite home videos for a refresher on just what constitutes torture.
11 posted on 05/03/2004 11:58:52 AM PDT by luvbach1 (In the know on the border)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: benson106
You are a seriously disturbed individual.
12 posted on 05/03/2004 12:00:14 PM PDT by JohnGalt (Chalabi Republicans: Soft on Treason)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Mr. K
alot of fraternity hazing is far worse then this. surely its inappropriate and there should be reprimands. funny how photographing a nude iraqi is "torture", but shooting an american civilian and holding him as a prisoner without medical attention for 3 weeks is just fine.
13 posted on 05/03/2004 12:01:16 PM PDT by oceanview
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: tornado100
"...Granted, these are atrocious behaviors perpetrated by a miniscule number of soldiers, with about a half-dozen reservists facing charges to date."

Alleged - A-l-l-e-g-e-d.............hang onto that. Pictures being passed along via media are doctored pictures – there is no Proof they are real. There are those who will do anything to support terrorism – Middle Eastern newspapers are paying a lot of $$$ for doctored pictures – Baghdad Bob lives and millions of readers who will not take the time to research the truth are falling into that trap! Bearing in mind “a picture is worth a thousand words”, this propaganda is winning. What ever happened was NO where as heinous as seeing burned, butchered bodies being dragged through the streets in Iraq with people cheering the grisly sight. People of Islam expect Americans to cringe at what one of their faith considers normal behavior. Wake up Americans – we are fighting a culture of violent and merciless people – don’t gang up on your own!

14 posted on 05/03/2004 12:03:04 PM PDT by yoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tornado100
Why did they pose for pictures?
15 posted on 05/03/2004 12:03:54 PM PDT by malia (BUSH/CHENEY '04 NEVER FORGET!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JohnGalt
Actually attaching wire to a man's testicles and giving a shock once in a while is just childish fun. The children thought it was so much fun seeing the prisoners in their birthday suit. Piling them up in a naked pyramid was so much fun. See Dick and Jane have fun. See Dick and Jane have fun in the army. See Dick and Jane have fun in the army defiling(it ain't torture)prisoners. It's so funny-Hahahahahahahahaha!
16 posted on 05/03/2004 12:07:31 PM PDT by meenie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: malia
because they are immature, 18 and 19 year olds who grew up watching Jackass on MTV, and without oversight or supervision, this is what they degraded to.

But to equate their actions with those of the Nazi SS as some people are, especially the media, is nonsense.
17 posted on 05/03/2004 12:10:48 PM PDT by oceanview
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: tornado100
A disturbing thing about these pics to me is a sense that this is not "interrogation" or "torture" in progress.

It just looks like boredom and cameras at the prisoners expense; along with some serious issues in terms of sexuality and what would be entertaining.

I mean, who thinks up this stuff?

18 posted on 05/03/2004 12:19:24 PM PDT by Sam's Army
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sam's Army
"I mean, who thinks up this stuff?"

I have a couple of friends in DS I that said when we were holding 100,000 of these Iraqis in large camps with tents for shelters they would check on them and find them giving each other BJ's or playing rump ranger. They said this was between guys that had not had a shower in weeks. In that culture women are kept under lock and key, so a lot of men practice homosexuality until they get married. So I guess maybe they do.

That said, there is no excuse for what our guys did. They will be fried extra crispy to make a point. I would not want to be one of them. Of course if I was, I sure a hell would not have taken pictures.
19 posted on 05/03/2004 12:32:16 PM PDT by MPJackal (Waiting for the big one and some nice beach front property in Nevada.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: JohnGalt
"but the question what will you do?"

My next Moral Leadership Seminar at Civil Air Patrol will be:

1) Pictorials of Iraqi abuses of Americans (working up the cadets' righteous indignation
2) Pictorials of American abuses at Abu Ghraib (attempting to suck them into the same thinking as the guards)
3) Cause a raucous debate among the cadets about right behavior
4) Hand out the applicable rules from the Geneva Convention
5) Wrap-up with a series of scenarios in which the Cadets have to choose the legal behavior.

I'm an action-oriented guy, in my own small sphere.

B.C.

20 posted on 05/03/2004 12:34:06 PM PDT by Uncle Miltie (Mullahs swinging from lamp posts.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-118 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson