Why the Fallujahn Sky Is Not Falling

Washington Post ^ | May 2, 2004 | Bob Kagan

[MN_Mike]

Why the Fallujahn Sky Isn't Falling

[MN_Mike]

I had my fill this morning. All the boohooing and apprehension about our efforts in Iraq in general and Fallujah and Najaf in particular is all too familiar. We heard it during the early days of the Afgan taliban take down, heard it during the initial days of the Iraqi invasion, its a constant drumbeat by armchair generals.

Bill Bennett's Morning in America is a great program. But Bill and co/ed author Bob Kagan have exhausted my patience. They and Senator McCain share this point of view that we say one thing and do another. Let me remind them one and all of Rummy's comment: This is chess not checkers!

We are on record saying we will capture or kill Sadr and pacify Fallujah, what we are doing today does nothing to diminish our achievement of our stated mission, and may even safe a few lives in the process.

Our other mission is to get the Iraqis to govern themselves and eventually provide for their own security. Right now the problem is that the US military casts the big shadow that Iraqis view as too invasive. We would probably have similar views ourselves should a foreign power be patrolling our cities and streets.

So what does all this play out? First off, the USMC are not vacating Fallujah, but are repositioning units towards the northern section of the city--where the bad guys have consolidated themselves. But we are putting an Iraqi face into the mix for political as much as military reasons. War is not just dropping daisy cutters and moabs, it also includes winning hearts and minds.

As for those silly jerks who glee at what they determine is a military pull-back, the are in for a rude awakening. The mission still exists. Besides when have we ever let some idiots dancing in the streets detemine the time and place of our choosing?

For as much as I admire Bill and Senator McCain, particularly for Senator McCain's service to our country, neither of these gentleman are or have been generals tasked to accomplish the mission in Iraq. To suggest that we are today vacillating in Fallujah and Kajaf discredits to our generals in charge, while inadvertently lessening our resolve on the home front.

[Russ]

Mike, I like your style!

[rbmillerjr]

Well Mike, I'd have to say that the primary frustration is that we are trying to win the hearts and minds in a stupid manner.

The general we sent in proclaimed victory for the insurgents and accused the Americans of not being manly fighting men.

It was a boneheaded move. There will have to be big adjustments to the original plan for success. My bet is that we will not have any fighting iside Fallujah now which means we lost. LOL, the general even claimed that there were NO foreign fighers in Fallujah.

[ArGee]

Faced with that reality, conservatives and even neoconservatives can be heard muttering these days that if the Iraqis Vietnamese won't take responsibility for their own country, we should leave them to their fate.

Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it.

Shalom.

[theFIRMbss]

>Well Mike, I'd have to say that the primary frustration is ...

I feel frustration,
but I remind myself that
bad guys study us:

Bush's Pals at The Weekly Standard and Free Republic.com Are Panicking (Al Jazeera)

[InterceptPoint]

The general we sent in proclaimed victory for the insurgents and accused the Americans of not being manly fighting men.

Reference?

[Axlrose]

Its time to get tough on the islamofacists in that place, we can't bee seen to lose face. Either they give themselves up or they meet allah. All of them.

[rbmillerjr]

I read it in a referenced story on FR...I'll dig it up and post.

[MN_Mike]

Mark my words: In three weeks, mission in Fallujah accomplished, the bad actors eliminated. That would be by May 24th, my 28th wedding anniversary (as it turns out).

Suffice it to say, the vetting process is underway and one general has eliminated himself. Too bad though, he could have stopped a tank with his ugly face. Chief of Staff Myers yesterday echoed prior statements by generals in Iraq in downplaying this guy, who apparently was inflated by the media.

[rbmillerjr]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1128047/posts

If this tactic works I'll be surprised as the "Fallujah Brigade" has turned Fallujah quiet. Why no battles going on?

I suspect the Marines will need to go back in to solve the problem. I hope I'm wrong.

[LS]

Anyone who looked at ARVN in 1971 would have found a solid fighting force that was capable of defeating the PAVNs at any time IF (big if) it had the same logistics and air support that the ARVNs were promised.

I've seen several Army generals confirm this---that the ARVNs were, by 1971, quite solid. The same will happen with the Iraqi army.

[ArGee]

I've seen several Army generals confirm this---that the ARVNs were, by 1971, quite solid.

I believe this. I believe that South Vietnam could have stood firm if we had been willing to wage that war to win.

The only acceptable exit strategy is victory. Everything else is a loss.

Shalom.

[kjam22]

Our other mission is to get the Iraqis to govern themselves and eventually provide for their own security. Right now the problem is that the US military casts the big shadow that Iraqis view as too invasive. We would probably have similar views ourselves should a foreign power be patrolling our cities and streets.

That's the politics part that makes this war unwinnable. Unwinnable because we care to much about the politics part and have lost our appreciation for the value of your enemy surrendering unconditionally. Those Iraqis that feel that way are the same 1 in 4 that the administration said hated us before this war ever started.

We knew they were there before we went in. Thinking that they would change their minds was pretty foolish.

[democrats_nightmare]

I hope you are right for our soldiers are dying by the day and we are doing touchy feely negotiations with a very unstable group of people...............As per the other post history is the greatest teacher and in most circumstances to win war and affect a great cultural change you have to basically crush them as a civilization say as in the case of Japan and Germany in WWII......So either you are going to be proved right or...we are going to continue piddling around with this war until a lot more soldiers and maybe US civilians die then we are going to have to just nut up and get it on and smash them.

[Godfollow]

"To suggest that we are today vacillating in Fallujah and Kajaf discredits to our generals in charge, while inadvertently lessening our resolve on the home front."

OK... well and good, but you also have to keep the hearts and minds of those on the home front informed and assured. When all we see are our soldiers getting blown up, and no singns of whacking the enemy, naturally we get concerned. We want to see signs that we are making an impact toward winning this thing... got it?

[jwpjr]

I don't recall which of the hundred or so articles I've read/heard about this had the info but it was in a couple of them. He was quoted as saying we had cut and run, and then someone else added that we knew better than to try to enter the city again.

[LS]

There is a great video series on this called the "Long Way Home" project that features many of these interviews. It has a tape called "How We Lost the War," but also has a tape called "How We Won the War," basically dealing with the ARVNS.

[EternalHope]

Besides, when have we ever let some idiots dancing in the streets detemine the time and place of our choosing?

>> Those idiots think they beat the United States.
>> The rest of the Arab/Islamic world sees them dancing in the streets, and thinks they beat the United States too.
>> The idiots who think these things attach religious significance to this PERCEIVED victory.

Like it or not, the PERCEPTION has been created that we lost. No amount of bluster about how we really kicked their butts, they just don't know it yet, will change the fact that right now we are PERCEIVED to be the loser.

We may be able to reverse that perception, and I certainly hope we can/do. But it will take something more concrete than ernest PR releases about how we really didn't withdraw.

Unless the PERCEPTION is changed, we really ARE the loser.

[kjam22]

We may be able to reverse that perception, and I certainly hope we can/do. But it will take something more concrete than ernest PR releases about how we really didn't

Unless the PERCEPTION is changed, we really ARE the loser.

Yeah.... can you imagine what this site would be like if Clinton were president and had not won that battle?

[MN_Mike]

The only perceptions that matter are those of the insurgents and other fanatics holed up in a northern section of the city. Our operations to date have successfully sectioned off these dead-enders These creeps are presently surrounded to the northeast and northwest by USMC. We shouldn't question the resolve of the USMC.

Perceptions are important, I agree. But you don't base your military tactical operations around some idiots dancing in the street. We will successfully complete our mission in Fallujah by 5-24-04. Then let's see who is still on the dance card.