Iraq By The Numbers--A recent poll reflects more on the failures of Iraqis than Americans

FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | May 3, 2004 | Steven Vincent

[LS]

Well, I do think the article is right in that in cultures that still don't get their info from even QUASI-"unbiased" media, or alternative media, it's a tough fight. And there are quirks in the Arab culture related to the role of rumor, etc. Still, you make a good point about the Kurds. If for no other reason, we need to find out once and for all if Arabic Islam and democracy are compatible. If they are, great. If not, we need to know that---but to find that out, we have to do a little work there for a while.

[Captain Kirk]

Iraqi hostilty to American troops has *increased* in the last year....and you persist in always looking at the sunny side and proclaiming that "we will be victorious.". I guess we just have different standards of what constitutes success and standards of evidence of success.

[LS]

Any "increased hostility" to American troops is difficult to measure by polls. Polls are notoriously unreliable in the U.S., and far more so in Iraq. That's the whole essence of the Frontpagemag.com piece that you ignore. It's not a "sunny" side. It's a realistic side. You're on the Kerry side.

[RobbyS]

I hope things are not, as you say, spiraling out of control, as my son is one of the troops in Najaf. From my perspective, the basic problem is that there are too few "Iraqis," people who think of themselves primarily as citizens of that State. My instruction to my son when he phones is to trust none of you. You all have come close to justifing the European view that Arabs are incapable of self-government except under a dictatorship.

[Captain Kirk]

Polls are unreliable? A year ago Freepers were quoting them as chapter and verse and gallup is more reliable than most. In fact, more than one of these "the Iraqi want us there" poll enthusiasts told me that they would support withdrawal if the "Iraqis no longer wanted us there." Where are this poll flip-floppers now?

[LS]

As your name implies, you are on another planet. Freepers, as a rule, do NOT swear by polls, and in fact there was a prominent article published on FR about how all the polls were wrong in 1996. As to who is more reliable, I will say this: a Gallup poll in Los Angeles is just a tad more reliable than one done in Iraq or ANY country where there has not been freedom of speech. That's just common sense. The polls were WILDLY off in Nicaragua under Ortega.

Now, whatever you want Gallup to say, the messages I'm seeing, over and over from American SOLDIERS, is that the vast majority of Iraqis want us to stay and pretty much like us.

[Valin]

I really have become a fan of these Iraq (and other) blogs.

[Valin]

I don't know if I would call it spiraling out of control, in some parts of Iraq it is dangerous. But in most of Iraq things are moving along.

The main reason we are in Iraq is to see if democracy is possible in the mid east. The President and I think it is. It's a big gamble but if it's successful...the world will change, and for the better.

Tell you son for me
1 Thank you!
2 this old zoomie says BE CAREFUL! If he gets himself hurt, I will not (repeat NOT) be happy!

[WOSG]

I hope things are not, as you say, spiraling out of control, as my son is one of the troops in Najaf. From my perspective, the basic problem is that there are too few "Iraqis," people who think of themselves primarily as citizens of that State. My instruction to my son when he phones is to trust none of you.

That's an excellent point. The issue is to create a different kind of patriotism - a patriotism not towards a fanatic mullah but towards a sovereign and free Iraq. The Marines must get that point, because that is what they said they are looking for in the officers that they are recruiting for the Iraqi army.

[WOSG]

Yes, there are polls and there is pollaganda...

But a poll number that says 70% of Iraqis are *afraid* to help the coalition for fear of their life is a scary number no matter how you slice it...

The Era of Saddam is still not yet gone.

[McGavin999]

Most of the people answering this poll were already being intimidated by the insurgents. Nobody is free to express their real opinions until the bad guys are rounded up.

One of the mistakes we made was leaving the south to just our coalition partners, they didn't see the subtle start of this. The other problem was the failure of the CPA to do something immediately for Sadar City.

The first thing I said after we took out Baghdad was there should have immediately been projects started that would have made Sadar City better, even if it was only hiring people to clean up the streets, paint the buildings, and put in sewer lines. We didn't.

[LS]

I will have more info for people here in a week or so from an insider in Camp Pendleton.

[Captain Kirk]

I cite evidence to illustrate that "vast majority" of Iraqis do not want us to stay: a Gallup poll of more than 3,000. Evidence which even the Front Page accepts!

You, on the other hand, state that the "vast majority" do want us to stay "and pretty much like us" but cite no evidence, presumably you are basing your claim on a "feeling" right? I prefer a much less subjective kind of evidence, however. If you have evidence that transcend your "feelings" what is it?