Posted on 05/02/2004 5:53:26 PM PDT by Investment Biker
Yep.
Perpetual Adoration.
Are you married? Does your libido control you?
IF you're not married, how come you're not a priest?
A survey for Hoge's book found that 71 percent of lay Catholics and 53 percent of diocesan priests support optional celibacy.
Those are Hoge's numbers, which proves nothing. The data was probably collected at a VOTF powwow in Boston in an attempt to bolster his argument and sell books. Maybe Frankie Kissling helped him crunch the numbers or pull a figure out of his backside. Without his empirical data and an analysis of the methodolgy used in conducting the survey, it's nothing but scatology.
The Church, as you well know, isn't a democracy administered in accordance with opinion polls. The Holy Father has spoken on the issue. Now obediently accept it, as a faithful deacon should, or leave for greener pastures.
Why won't you consider the diaconate, Cunningham? I have no problem with my own vow, as I will not remarry should something happen to my wife of 26 years.
But, a discipline is not a doctrine, and we can discuss disciplines to our heart's content.
Ever looked at the diaconate, Cunningham? You'd make a good one.
Barring that rather implausible scenario I'll continue my current vocation of praying for the Church Suffering and the Church militant(including you), working out my own salvation through fear and trembling as St. Paul taught and exposing heterodoxy, dissent and heresy whenever I find it.
Going through life as an ecclesiastical snitch won't be satisfying, Cunningham.
Things don't seem to be so dire in those diocese that have strong adherence to the faith. A great comparison is my own diocese of Lansing with that of next door Saginaw (Michigan).
Lansing is led by a very orthodox Bishop, while the Bishop of Saginaw (or former Bishop...he died recently) was a member of the liberal Catholic group Call to Action (may his soul rest in peace anyway). To my knowledge, there isn't a Church left in that diocese that has Eucharistic adoration. There is a shortage of Priests. Tabernacles are being hidden in back rooms and kneelers are removed when Churches are remodeled. People chat loudly in the Church before, after, and sometimes during Mass with impunity. In many cases I've observed in those parishes when visiting, the Priest was yucking it up with them. All sense of reverence has been lost in the vacuum that is created when liberal Bishops and Priests turns their back on the sense of respect,holiness, and reverence that should be given to our Lord during the Mass, and when He is present in the Tabernacle. Of course they can't get Priests in those diocese; why would anybody even think about it?
Compare that to Lansing, where the Seminaries are turning out many Priests each year. If I remember correctly, I think it was about 20 that were ordained in the diocese last year (in Saginaw, I believe the number was zero). Most of the Churches I've been to have signs at the back of the Church asking for silence and reverence in Church. Two Churches in my direct area have started 24 x 7 perpetual adoratio, which many Churches having adoration at least one day a week.
I belong to a Home School group in this diocese where folks are following the teaching of the Church on contraception, and the sanctity of life (something taught from the pulpit here). One family has 8 children (7 boys), another family 7 boys, yet another has 5 children with 4 boys. I could go on. I'll bet you we end up with 6 or 7 Priests from our small group, because we have followed Church teaching, been open to life, and allowed the Father to bring more Priests into this world. These kids are being taught the teachings of the Church, all of the teachings, at home and at the Church. The main point is that the Church is standing firm on these teachings, and the result is more Catholics actually being aware and practicing what the Church teaches. This is what will save the Church, not changing the rules that have existed for 2000 years to fit current societal expectation and conditions.
There have been many success stories in other diocese noted in Free Republic regarding the number of Seminarians being ordained, and it is clear that in the "liberal" diocese such as Saginaw, the Church is struggling. Seems clear to me what is going on, and what the fix needs to be.
And it has nothing to do with continuing the teaching regarding Priestly celibacy that has stood in the Roman Catholic church for 2000 years, a Church which until recently did not have a shortage of Priests...ever.
Finally, there was some comments in this thread regarding what percentage of Catholics would support married Priests...who cares? Some polls have shown 75% of Catholics don't believe in the Real Presence; there is never a line at confession but long lines at Communion time; and the list goes on. What is right is right, even if only one person (the Pope) adheres to that teaching.
It is also not a requirement for the priesthood, since the Anglican dispensation has brought in well over 200 men in the U.S., and 800, worldwide.
Your anecdotal experience is just that. The number of priests is on the decline, and the number of seminarians is not sufficient, even if they all make it to ordination, to replace them.
Wishing that things were different is not a solution.
Please provide passages from Scripture which support your mistaken claim. Here's a clue: Peter's mother in law is mentioned in Scripture, his wife is not. Additionally,, you might want to enlighten yourself by reading St.Clement of Alexandria's(~150-220 Anno Domini) The Stromata, book VII Chapter XI, which reads in part:
'They say, accordingly, that the blessed Peter, on seeing his wife led to death, rejoiced on account of her call and conveyance home, and called very encouragingly and comfortingly, addressing her by name, "Remember thou the Lord." Such was the marriage of the blessed and their perfect disposition towards those dearest to them.
Thus also the apostle says, "that he who marries should be as though he married not," and deem his marriage free of inordinate affection, and inseparable from love to the Lord; to which the true husband exhorted his wife to cling on her departure out of this life to the Lord.'
But it is beyond rediculous and against God's will, for a church, in failing to allow married priests, to replace that shortage with homosexuals who bogger little boys, all in order to have enough priests to cover the shortage created by their own, not God's, demand that all priests be single.
Once again you are incorrect. There are 22 Churches sui juris within the Catholic Church: 21 in Eastern Rites which ordain married men and one, the Latin Rite, aka Western Church, in which the norm is to ordain single men who willingly and freely accept the discipline of celibacy. Men who desire both marriage and the priesthood have 21 other choices they can make. Again, God Himself praises celibacy and as Scripture teaches us, if you make it to heaven, you too will be celibate as well: "And Jesus answering, said to them: You err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they shall neither marry nor be married, but shall be as the angels of God in heaven." Matthew 22:29-30
Scripture also teaches us to emulate God: "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:48
Are you aware that the Vatican banned, in writing no less, the ordination of homosexuals and pederasts in February, 1961?(That is a rhetorical question. Based on your demonstrated ignorance of Scripture and the topic at hand, we both know the answer is a deafening no):
"Advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers."
So what has been demonstrated in the vast majority of these heinous crimes is a lack of holiness and disobedience on the part of both the criminals who perpetrated these acts and the bishops who thumbed their noses at the Pope in ordaining those that they should not have. You also have put forth a specious argument implying that the discipline of celibacy was the catalyst for these acts. However, your argument doesn't hold water, once again, since the discipline of celibacy played no part in the sex crimes perpetrated by these Protestant ministers, did it?(rhetorical again)
They are only trying to wear us out,they don't want a strong Church,most of them think Catholics and the faith itself,are a joke,but they stick around and don't leave. They want the publicity,the real estate and control of the ordinary Catholic as well as the steady income they envision the good Catholics providing for them.
Please don't forget that most pedophiles are heterosexual and many are married. Liberal/progressives lie and confuse in order to acheive their objectives. The more confusion they can create,the more they can obscure the Truth.
I worked in government bureaucracies long enough to know the basic technique. Never get rid of a failing program just create more layers or bureacracy or new programs to fix it and pretty soon you will have 10 or 12 more problems to fix and may even forget the genesis of the problem. Of course the original pproblem festers and metastisizes and will eventually kill the host,which is the goal of the godless ones.
You lack the intelligence and character to be counseling anyone else on his or her vocation. Especially when one considers the manner in which you've allowed yourself to be consumed by pride, envy and wrath towards the Holy Father as well as the relatively small number of married Protestant ministers who have converted to Catholicism and been ordained. You feel cheated because of your failure at Holy Trinity and you make no effort to hide your bitterness, resentment and jealousy.
I recommend a rigid regimen of penance and self mortification in addition to daily recitation of the rosary. Put as much effort into your faith as you do that animal shelter. It will be good for your soul as well as your vocation.
Furthermore the switchboard operators at the large metropolitan hospital,that cared for the majority of indigents in the city,told me repeatedly that the only clergy that EVER responded in the middle of the night were the Catholic priests. Because of my position I heard this two or three times every six months or so,over a period of twenty years.The board ops were usually not Catholic.
The last figure you used,about two weeks ago was 300 which was inflated by about 100 or 150. Are you the counter of Catholics in Fort Worth too? I never cease to be amazed at doubling the Catholics n the diocese in two years. Stop giving out those figures from fantasy land. People like you create confusion and you should be ashamed of yourself although I am sure you think it all quite amusing.
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