[WOSG]

There is plenty to argue with.

Pat B. is wrong this point:
"First, we do not have the troops in country to pacify Iraq. "

Wrong. Abizaid has corrected this misperception. We dont need more troops. Even in fallujah we barely used the forces and power we had, very restrained. What we NEED are Iraqi security forces that can help patrol the streets that are reliable.

Of course, if it was explained in these terms it would exlplode the big myth that Pat B. is trying to convey, that this is about 'empire'. It isnt. It's about supporting a positive political development, ie, democratic Iraq. That will be done mainly by Iraqis, not Americans.

[jpsb]

If we don't need more troops then why are we keeping troops in country past their rotation date? How come we can't take, hold and secure rebellious cities?

[Age of Reason]

Even in fallujah we barely used the forces and power we had

what forces and power would you have used?

[Hank Rearden]

What we NEED are Iraqi security forces that can help patrol the streets that are reliable.

No, we don't need that, they do. The Iraqis.

If they don't want a freer country, we certainly can't impose one on them. We remove threats to our interests (pretty much done), make sure future threats are contained and suppressed - then get the hell out and let the Iraqis set the course for their country.

The whole Fallujah story is demonstrating how ridiculous our efforts are becoming. If we have no interest in even avenging harm done to us, why are we staying? What's the point?

[fourfivesix]

"What we NEED are Iraqi security forces that can help patrol the streets that are reliable."

Which we don't have. The Iraqi forces have proven themselves unreliable. THerefore we have to use U.S. troops to do jobs that the Iraqi's should do but can't be trusted to.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3648489.stm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20040422-114403-9180r.htm

"It's about supporting a positive political development, ie, democratic Iraq. That will be done mainly by Iraqis, not Americans."
Iraqis by and large have shown that they don't want democracy and those Iraqis who do aren't ready for it. All they want is for us to go and let them start slaughtering each other.

[iconoclast]

What we NEED are Iraqi security forces that can help patrol the streets that are reliable.

Perhaps I'm just a little ole ignorant feller from flyover country, but isn't turning control over to a Republican Guard general just a little like as if we had turned over security in Germany to the Waffen SS in 1946?

[Joe Hadenuf]

Pat B. is wrong this point: "First, we do not have the troops in country to pacify Iraq. "

You suggest you can control a country the size of California, full of armed religious freaks with a mear 100,000 or so troops? Wont happen.

What we NEED are Iraqi security forces that can help patrol the streets that are reliable.

LOL, good luck.