Posted on 04/30/2004 7:29:41 PM PDT by blam
Saddam's man takes over in Fallujah
By Toby Harnden in Baghdad
(Filed: 01/05/2004)
A former senior general in Saddam Hussein's army made a triumphant entry into the besieged city of Fallujah yesterday and was greeted by flag-waving locals celebrating the departure of US marines.
Maj Gen Jassem Mohammed Saleh, who headed Saddam's infantry forces, is to take over as head of what American officials are calling the "1st battalion of the proposed Fallujah Brigade".
Maj Gen Jassem Mahmood Saleh arriving in Fallujah This is a new force to police the Sunni stronghold.
His appearance came as two marines were killed and six wounded in the city when their patrol was attacked by a suicide car bomber.
The new Iraqi battalion will have up to 1,100 men, many of them former members of Saddam's forces and some insurgents who have been fighting the marines.
American commanders argued that there had been no deal with the insurgents and the marines leaving the city were not handing over control but simply "repositioning" their forces.
The locally-brokered deal came after President George W Bush decided the political risks of fighting for Fallujah street by street were too great. Abandoning much bellicose rhetoric about wiping out the foreign fighters and Saddam loyalists, US commanders decided to allow at least some of these elements to police the city with their blessing.
"This is not a withdrawal, it is not a retreat," insisted Brig Gen Mark Kimmitt, the senior US military spokesman in Iraq. "But as long as we continue to see progress, we will continue to pursue the political track."
He said the new force would start to man checkpoints. Gareth Bayley, a British coalition spokesman, said: "Talk of a peace deal is over the top. What we have here is a tactical change."
Tanks and American troops left Fallujah after pulling down barbed wire defences around the soft drinks factory where they had set up a base for the past three weeks.
Up to 80 marines remained but were expected to withdraw to a base outside Fallujah last night.
Many ordinary marines said they did not believe the initiative would work and it could endanger their lives when they had to revert to the "plan A" of a full-scale offensive to take Fallujah.
"Honestly, I don't think they're going to be able to do it," said Cpl Elias Chavez, 28.
"We had the insurgents cordoned off, they couldn't go anywhere, we had a chance to get them. Now they can flee wherever they want and we're still going to have to deal with them."
He said the new force, largely made up of Fallujah residents, would be unlikely to apprehend or clamp down on anti-coalition fighters.
By leaving without defeating the insurgents, their deployment since April 5, following the killing and mutilation of four US defence contractors, "was a waste of time, of resources and of lives".
"Everyone feels the same, especially those who know someone who was killed."
L Cpl Julius Wright, 20, said: "Now it's going to get worse. We pulled out when we should of gone in."
Gen Saleh shook hands with marine commanders before he entered the city, which is thought to house 2,000 insurgents.
Gen Kimmitt said he had little knowledge of the general's background but he had been "initially vetted".
The appointment is a stunning reversal of US policy, which was to exclude all Ba'ath Party members who held senior posts under Saddam.
But Gen Kimmitt said the new Fallujah force would be "completely integrated" with US forces and "under operational control" of marine commanders.
"Marines will continue to maintain a strong presence in and around Fallujah. We are certainly not withdrawing from Fallujah."
"The top Marine commander in Iraq has chosen to assemble what amounts to a Sunni Muslim militia run by officers once blacklisted by U.S. occupation forces in an attempt to avoid a new offensive that could be politically damaging to the United States in Iraq and across the Arab world."
If your expecting our joint command for that theater to issue a public statement saying anything more clear, I'm afraid you're not going to get it.
"Under an agreement worked out by marine commanders in Fallujah, marines began withdrawing Friday from positions inside the city while Major General Jassem Mohammed Saleh entered the city to lead an Iraqi security force that will replace the marines.
DiRita said marine commanders had "a lot of authority to make decisions, and they're doing that, and they've developed this force."
That may explain why senior Pentagon officials appeared to have been in the dark about the agreement on Thursday when it was first announced in Fallujah by marine officers.
General John Abizaid, the head of the US Central Command, told reporters earlier Friday he did not know the Iraqi general who was leading the force.
Pentagon officials likewise had little information about Saleh other than reports that he was a respected officer with a popular following."
After two attempts, this is the closest thing you can find to support your claim that the pullback, "was a Marine plan through and through". It’s not even close.
It’s describing the Marines role in assembling the Sunni Brigade that they hope will avoid a new offensive. That’s not in dispute. We knew weeks ago that they were assembling local forces. We know they are hopeful.
There is absolutely nothing pointing to the decision to halt the attack on the Fallujahn insurgents being a Marine plan. As far as I can tell, despite great criticism of this decision, no one in the military, government or even the media is specifically saying that this was a decision made by Marines or even the Military.
That is the source of the frustration. From all appearances, the Marines had their knees knocked out from under them by politicians fearful of casualties. No one has documented any specific claims to the contrary, just vague statements of generally giving commanders full authority and referenced to their lead role in the development of the Fallujah brigade.
After two requests for evidence, your claim is completely unsupported.
marine commanders had "a lot of authority to make decisions" "
Again, this is very vague.
Whe don't know the Marine's parameters for “working out” an agreement, and how much was “a lot of authority”. Who else had a lot of authority? This has the appearance of a public relations person doing their best to leave the impression that this was a command decision with next to nothing to support it. They’re claiming that it was not a Pentagon decision but they are not claiming that it was not pressured by IGC, CPA, Brahimi or Bush’s conference last week deciding against a large scale invasion.
Again, there is no evidence to date that halting the Fallujahn attack was a Military or USMC command decision, only that they were involved, which almost goes without saying.
We are a nation of over 200 million people. Let's say I'm the president and we know that there is a terrorist out there waiting to drive that van, you talk about, into someone and kill them. His one goal in life is to kill Americans.
Let's say out of those millions I pick you and order[not ask] you send your wife and kids out to drive around till they find him.
Now the reason i want you to do that is I might be able to reason with him if I can find him. By doing this I might be able to avoid upsetting the rest of his Middle East friends and the U. N.
While it would be tragic if they died, burnt and blown to pieces, it would only be 5 out of 200 million.
Now I know you don't mean to be that cold and unfeeling but that's what it sounds like to those who have lost loved ones in battle. When soldiers become numbers on a piece of paper, that's when they start being sacrificed on the almighty altar of politics.
OK smartass. Find me one single piece of documentation that proves or even indicates the Marine decision was driven by politicians. I happen to know for a fact you are wrong. Short of enlisting you into the military, getting you a security clearance, and stapling the proof to your forehead, I'm not going to be able to show you what you are looking for. And frankly, I have lost interest in trying. Your preconcieved notions do not reflect reality. We're all better off for it.
Think for a second. The Marines were killed by a suicidal maniac driving a car. How in the world do you "deter" suicidal maniacs?
That’s not even close to what I asked for.
I asked for " a single statement from a military commander that this pullout/repositioning on the brink of victory was "a Marine plan through and through" or something like that."
You only showed that Marines were responsible for assembling the indigenous police and military for Fallujah. If has been expected from the beginning.
What is disturbing is what is highlighted above. It’s indicative of massive political interference with the Marine’s campaign to defeat an attacking insurgency. And to date, there is absolutely no evidence to the contrary, just claims of people devoted to some vague statements about empowering local commanders to make decisions.
If I were to guess at this point, it looks like the Marines, frustrated for two weeks with very restrictive rules of engagement after loosing 12 members in a day, simply said, “Screw this. We’re out of here!” and prematurely empowered a force meant to police a pacified Fallujah to patrol undefeated insurgents.
In other words, politicians pressured Marines to compromise and abort defeating the insurgents in Fallujah, probably by the IGC, CPA, Brahimi or Bush’s conference last week deciding against a large scale invasion. This is what’s instinctively apparent to so many here. It’s not proven, just the most convincing explanation of such a dramatic departure from how Marines want to fight.
Now people who are adamantly claiming the contrary can’t find a source that supports them. Just vague or irrelevant statements like that one you just posted to me.
Why did I know that if I just remained polite, reasonable and resolute, you would get frustrated at your own unsupportable faith that this compromise was a military decision and sink into juvenile name calling?
I don’t have to prove the contrary, it’s obvious to all but a narrow minority who don’t want to believe their eyes. You have to convince them otherwise, and thus far, you have no evidence (other that your “secrets”) to support such an apparently absurd claim.
Now get lost. I don’t have time to get drawn into juvenile name calling tantrums.
Polite...debateable
Reasonable...definitely not
Resolute...like a stump.
And despite several direct quotes from DoD officials directly attributing the Marine decisions in Fallujah to Marines, you remain convinced you are right despite no evidence to support your position. If you were Arab, you'd call that a victory.
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