Saddam's Man Takes Over In Fallujah

The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 5-1-2004 | Toby Harnden

[Rokke]

"THEY ALL SAID IRAQ HAD WMDs - AND THAT'S WHY WE HAD TO INVADE."

Well, if those statements were so clear, I'm sure you can provide them. Until then, I'm calling you a liar.

[WOSG]

"my gut feeling that our domestic media has caused more deaths in the theater than the ragtag band of crazies that are motivated by their cooperation."

My gut churns likewise. Our biggest enemy is our own defeatists in own midst and our unwillingness to simply be strong and stay the course.

[mississippi red-neck]

I know where Sader is and so does the whole world and I know that the Gen. said that we we were going to capture or kill him and that they had a time limit and then had another time limit and then a weapons ultimatum and in the last four weeks a half a dozen threats or demands and have backed down on ever one of them.

I was born in 1945 and volunteered for military in 1965 and had friends 18 to 25 years old killed who never had a wife or kids or grandchildren because they had sh*thead ivy-leage politicians who set in the war room each day with their suits, white shirts, their scorecards and said good they killed 50 of us and we killed 500 of them so we're wining. Then they took their morning polls and their wall street stock tickers and said no you can,t go their, that might make Russia mad, and no you can't bomb their you might make Red china mad and no you mine that harbor you'll interfere with all those lovely munitions coming in.

Then after all the dying and the fighting I watched the boys that believed get run out the country while leaving enough equipment on the ground to stock two armies. Then Johnson retires rich, McNamara retires rich, and the Colin Powell's get to be Generals and Secretary's of State.

The troops they get, wheelchairs and seeing dogs, artificial limbs, mental hospitals grave markers and spit upon and their crime was they believed. Now I see the beginning of the same stupid tactics by some of the same people being applied once again to some of the same type of fine young people and it makes me sick. A leader that will play politics with the lives of his soldiers ain't worth the spit it takes to shine their boots.

I'm 58 and I have rheumatoid arthritis and heart trouble and I may be stupid and I may not know what it takes to win a fight but I've seen first hand what it takes to lose one. As for people who think like you and believe you can talk in the middle of a fight don't bother taking on a dedicated healty crazed terriorist because even a cripple like me can kill a talker like you, before he realizes he's in a fight and not a conversation.

[Light Speed]

Noble effort Rokke..but one Can't get thru to them..cuz they cannot see the big picture....even if some have 50" widescreen TV's : )

Over and over again President Bush has said that America is staying for the long haul..we will not vacate so that terror will have the central hub of mideast oil.

Guess some do not hear to well eihter : )

Ayatollah whatever Iran..terror proxy lords of death will not get Iraq..and thats the premier reason the U.S. will stay in the region.

Right now the House of Saud must be crappin themselves..."Your not really going are you,,,what about us"

Crying,complaining and extortion.....Islam in the 21st.

[Lovergirl]

Bush will win this fall.



He has to win. God help us if Kerry or any other Dimwit becomes our president. Pray for President Bush.

[Rokke]

Sadr isn't anywhere near Fallujah, or even in a part of the country under Marine responsibility. And your rheumatoid arthritis and heart trouble are irrelavent to our campaign in Iraq. Your experience with how to lose a war three decades ago is exactly why we wage war like we do now. Colin Powell was a Captain in Vietnam. Like you, he learned how wars are lost. Do you think as the Secretary of State, he is dictating our Iraqi campaign? Politicians in Washington no longer dictate our overall strategy or tactics. You don't have to believe me. Just listen to retired Gen Franks. But sh*thead, ivy-league politicians aren't the only ones to blame for our failures in Vietnam. Another way we lose wars is to have American citizens make false claims about our conduct in the war, and ignorantly criticize the decisions of tactical commanders in the field, without the full knowledge of the factors that led to those decisions. I commend you for your service, but I condemn you for your false and defeatist statements. If you don't know all (or even most) of the facts, you don't help anyone by slinging false statements and criticism.

[Light Speed]

Bush will win LG : )

In Larry Kings recent interview with concubine # whatever..also known as Hilliary Clinton..saw her countinence when asked about John Kerry and running on his ticket as vice.

She was adamant in conveying that this was not going to happen...but more than that,,you could see in her eye's that she does not beleive in him....does not beleive he can win in 2004.

This is fatal....and I percieve the majority of dems know this now.....and are going to Liverpool docks to cheer Kerry.....but are not going to board Titanic : )...[I love it when I'm on a roll : )]

So..he toast.....On the Mclaughlin group program today..he was ridiculed as confused,flip/flop ,confused.

[easonc52]

I was born in 1945 and volunteered for military in 1965 and had friends 18 to 25 years old killed who never had a wife or kids or grandchildren

I want to say thank you for your service, and I am sorry about your friends.

I am thankful that I am able to be here today and express opinions on the internet. It certainly couldn't be without the sacrifices of our magnificent military!

[dixiechick2000]

Thank you all for your posts.
I can sleep well tonight. ;o)

[PhilDragoo]

Bush will win this fall..then settle accounts.

From your keyboard to God's Inbox.

That I'm not in charge of the solution of the Fallujah problem is proof of a merciful God.

Voila: Fallujah Flambe.

[dixiechick2000]

I meant to include you in my post above.
Thank you for your links.

[churchillbuff]

Until then, I'm calling you a liar.

Me, and Powell, Bush and Blair. We're all liars!

[Texasforever]

Reelection has become more important than winning a war.

No but it could help to "win the peace". Look, we should be glad that there is some movement from the Iraqis themselves to step up. Will it work? I am pessimistic but if it does then we are a step closer to being able to actually turning over the country to its citizens. If the Iraqi brigade falls apart then we can still do what is necessary but it will mean that we probably will never "pacify" this country. It is better to determine that now than 2 years from now.

[mississippi red-neck]

You know my statements that the demands we laid have not be met are true. At least I hope you know that they true. If They truned in all their weapons what are they killing our troops with. If Sadar is under arrest or dead who is that in the mosque daring us to come on in? As for as the health issues the point I was making is even a much weaker enemy can win a fight if he's willing to do what it takes and the other isn't. It's not how big the dog in the fight is but how big the fight in the dog is what counts.Anyway I hope for our troops you are right and I'm wrong.

But don't be suprised if you see us install another Saddam or our troops are in that sandbox before long wearing blue helmets with targets on their chest getting their daily dose of West Bank Troop Reduction. Also if GW doesn't wake up and get back with the original program, don't be suprised if JohnF"in Kerry is the next CiC. Lord Help us.

[Southack]

Let me give you a little something to think about.

If a terrorist drove his car headlong into an American family van filled with a mom and her 4 kids, it wouldn't even make the nightly local news.

Why? Because the U.S. loses over 3,000 Americans *per month* KIA in highway accidents. One fatal car wreck is lost in the noise.

But the U.S. doesn't lose very many Americans to terrorism very often. If that same terrorist instead blows up an American mother and her 4 kids at a shopping mall or sporting event, it is suddenly *NATIONAL* news for months. Same deaths; different perspective.

Now look over at Iraq. It's a country with about 24 million citizens. In our worst month there, we've lost a little less than 120 Americans.

The news media, loving to feast upon any anti-American, anti-Bush news that they can possibly sink their teeth into, gleefully highlight those ~~120 American deaths as if utter and total chaos for 24 million Iraqis was suddenly breaking out.

Yet 120 American deaths, while tragic and sad, wouldn't even alter the historical trend line for monthly American highway deaths...and we hardly have chaos breaking out in America today.

But because the American news media selectively reports anti-Bush news, there are many Americans who actually believe that Iraq is now in chaos due to 120 American deaths this month.

This is the tail (120 American deaths) wagging the dog (Iraq has 24 million citizens).

So here's a little Gedanken mind experiment:

Simply imagine that the news media printed a daily graph of American highway casualties, hospital accidents, mining fatalities, and manufacturing deaths alongside our daily fatalities in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You'd see, of course, an ENORMOUS number of American highway and hospital deaths reported each day, yet only a single pixel blip at the bottom of the graph for our deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.

If that graph were the sum total of American reporting of daily deaths, how many Americans do you think would imagine that the tail was wagging the dog compared to those who believe so today?

Yet that graph would be a politically and ideologically *neutral* graph. It would neither glorify nor demonize our current combat operations.

But it would alter *perspective*.

...And that's something that the Left fears.

[Travis McGee]

The Marines had secured 2/3 of Fallujah, all except the rabbit warren Golan section. This is where the foreign fighters and islamikazis are holed up.

US forces could go in door to door, but only with great casualties. Our troops can't tell one arab from another. We would end up shooting all the men, flattening the Golan, killing lots of women and kids (all live on world TV.)

This Iraqi general and his troops can tell an Iraqi local from a Syrian from a Saudi. This Iraqi general can do something we can't: segregate them out with the help of Iraqi locals, and execute them all.

He's positioning himself for a top top position in post American turnover Iraq. To grab that brass ring, he needs to perform now.

I don't know what odds to put on this gambit succeeding, but it's very interesting poker. We're on a timetable to turnover, and the general wants to leverage the timetable into a new career. Let's wait and see.

[Southack]

Lets also not forget that we *want* the Iraqis governing themselves, policing themselves, and calming down their own hotspots.

If this Iraqi general starts actually leading, then Iraq will be well on its way toward self-government.

Hey, it's not like we want Iraqis to act like welfare queens while we do all of the heavy lifting for them as their unpaid servants...

[Travis McGee]

Exactly. What we want is performance. What the general wants is a new career in post Saddam post America Iraq. To get what he wants, he has to quell the uprising in Fallujah, by whatever means will work.

[Light Speed]

Good Post : )

America is in for the long haul....President Bush will not waver here.

Too many freepers jumping ship.....joining confused Pat Buchannan on McLaughlin Group tonight with *Fall of Empire B.S.

Carrier USS George Washingtons Battlegroup has been in the gulf on new deployment since early March.

USS John C Stennis Strike Group just completed fleet Joint Task Force Exercise (JTFEX) 04-1 off the Southern California coast has drawn to a close.

JTFEX, which officially ended April 7, was the last major preparation before the Stennis Carrier Strike Group deploys in May

Carrier Dwight D. Eisenhower has been undergoing complex renovations and major technological upgrades since yard availabilty in 2002....scheduled out in 2004 for operation readiness.

[elfman2]

"You've got enough statements to validate the fact."

I’m still looking for a single statement from a military commander that this pullout/repositioning on the brink of victory was "a Marine plan through and through" or something like that.