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To: Lost Highway
culture wars are not won through political action but by winning the hearts and minds of the people.

Finally, somebody who has read the New Testament.

Anybody who thinks America can become more or less "Christian" by political action or by arguing over moral or cultural issues has YET to understand the Jesus of the gospels. It can't possibly be more clear that:

1. Jesus had NO interest in influencing politics

2. Jesus had NO interest in discussions of moral issues, per se, in isolation from a relationship with Himself. He made occasional comments, but the thrust of his work was invariably to teach people how to live in something He called "the kingdom", which He explicitly said was "not of this world".

3. Jesus had NO interest in reforming society by any method other than a personal devotion to His person and His utterances.

It was His scandalous LACK OF INTEREST in politics and wider culture (plus other things) that got Him in trouble.

The Jesus of the gospels is still a stumbling block to people who think Christians and churches have ANY mandate OTHER than to go into the world and teach individuals to individually respond to Jesus. Anything else has always failed and will fail. Anything else is a distraction from the gospel and is, then, a false gospel.

To the degree that "Christianity" is losing its influence on Western culture, it is simply and solely because there is a great falling away on the part of individual "Christians".

"Political non-involvement" seems to be one of the authors' bad things to be. I can't imagine how anybody could read the New Testament and find ANYTHING OTHER than a clear, willful, systematic, proud "political non-involvement" on the part of Jesus and His followers.

38 posted on 04/28/2004 9:14:22 AM PDT by Taliesan (fiction police)
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To: Taliesan
What you write may be true but all I can say is that luckily for us the "black robed brigade" from the Revolutionary War days felt much different about the church's and their role in the political matters of the day. It's pretty obvious that one of the major driving forces in organizing the citizenry to stand up and fight the British were the pastors and various church leaders who were instrumental in organizing and motivating the colonists. I guess their interpretation of the New Testament was somewhat different than what we're witnessing today.
43 posted on 04/28/2004 9:41:21 AM PDT by american spirit
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To: Taliesan
culture wars are not won through political action but by winning the hearts and minds of the people.

Very true. However, once their hearts are converted, someone has to educate their minds as to *what* God expects of them in the political realm. Regarding which --

Jesus had NO interest in influencing politics ... Jesus had NO interest in reforming society by any method other than a personal devotion to His person and His utterances.

True in a certain sense, but, (a) civilization requires laws and goverment, (b) somebody, somewhere, has got to be the government, (c) government officials can be saved, just as everyone else, and (d) such salvation, if genuine, will cause the said government officals to make more righteous decisions.... hence, a certain amount of social reform WILL take place. "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God", yes, but, in the getting of it, righteous governemnt is a nice earthly side effect.

It was His scandalous LACK OF INTEREST in politics and wider culture (plus other things) that got Him in trouble.

Au contraire -- part of the false charges against him involved alleged illegal plotting against the government.

I can't imagine how anybody could read the New Testament and find ANYTHING OTHER than a clear, willful, systematic, proud "political non-involvement" on the part of Jesus and His followers.

They had no rights or political access to the system; most of them were not even Roman citizens (except for the Apostle Paul). It simply wasn't possible for them to influence the political system, except indirectly by evangelizing those who WERE government officials.

However, it does not logically follow that Christians in a democratic republic should shirk their duties re:, at least, studying the issues a bit and voting, and in some cases obeying a call to activism or seeking elective office. It's clear that God cares about government -- the Bible has a lot to say about how government should be conducted, and we ignore those admonitions on election day at our peril. Furthermore several heroes of the faith were government officals of one sort or another -- Joseph and Daniel come to mind.

59 posted on 05/03/2004 1:35:40 PM PDT by Rytwyng (we're here, we're Huguenots, get used to us)
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