PROJECT ANNOYING EMPATHY FOR TERRI SCHIAVO

FreepinForTerri (a.k.a. Jacque from Texas)

[William Terrell]

I'm not judging anything, hoss, I'm just putting up my opinions. You can take 'em or leave 'em. It's what I think about the issue.

[TheSpottedOwl]

I used to think that those so passionate about Terri's life were afraid of state ordered death. I don't think that any longer. I think it's more hatred for Michael than love for Terri.

Terri symbolizes the terrible descent of morality going on in our society. The absolute devaluation of human life is now the norm, and we are marching towards a Godless, Fascist future if we don't stand up and say NO.

Terri represents all disabled human beings that for one reason or other, can't stick up for themselves. I got suckered into having a feeding tube inserted into my elderly mom several years ago. They lied to me, saying that they were worried about aspiration pneumonia. Being the dummy that I was, I agreed. Not only did they shirk their primary duty of getting her on her feet and walking after hip replacement surgery, they lied to me about other things too. I stayed with her every day, until I had to leave to pick my youngest kids up from school. I brought jars of #3 baby food, and spoon fed her. No problemo.

They called this "oral gratification", and if I EVER hear that term again I will be tempted to slap someone. A visiting therapist mistakingly had my mom brought to the soft feeding room, where she scarfed down a whole tray of fish, rice, and bread. The anger in the regular therapist's face told me to get her out of there. A Christian hospice sprung her late one evening soon after. That level of unprofessionalism was scary. She never had a problem eating anything that was put in front of her again. I should note that my mom had Alzheimer's and dementia, and was 82 when she passed away this September.

This is why I'm on Terri's side. She's younger than me for heaven's sake. I know God works miracles, and if He so chooses, he will work a miracle for Terri. This is exactly what Michael Schiavo is afraid of. I have had some experience in other aspects of this case, but that's my personal business.

You have your opinion, I have mine...

[ruoflaw]

gee, he wants to kill his wife! Do you think he should be allowed to kill her? Thou Shalt Not Kill

[Future Useless Eater]

There is at least a equal probability that she asks God daily to take her home and out of her misery.

You are stating your opinion as if it is fact.

There is [in YOUR opinion] at least a equal probability that she asks God daily to take her home and out of her misery.

There IS in MY opinion ZERO probability that she EVER told Michael she wished to DIE rather than have a feeding tube.

Your clever phraseology is partly based on Michael's EXTREME CRUELTY at the moment, NOT based on evidence that the two of them really HAD discussions of feeding tubes before 1990. Terri will be happy again, and will laugh at her dad's jokes again, and will enjoy her family's visits again, as soon as the 'investigation' is over.

We each have our own opinions, so lets leave it at that. I'm not interested in arguing with you, or convincing you any more. Good day.

[TOUGH STOUGH]

The state inspections and high tech bed, are indeed good news. Thank you for the ping and for all the good you have done for Terri. You and so many others on this board should be commended for your fine work. It is tremendously comforting to know you are all fighting for her with such tenacity and diligence. Terri ever remains in my prayers as do you all who have stood up so well for her!

[cyn]

"I wonder the motivations of some here." -- Similar to any other thing we've done on or via FR. Anyway, that should strengthen, not weaken, the resolve of others to action. Are you talking 'blowing smoke' or self agrandizement, or do you mean actively working in some way against returning Terri to her family? Are you approaching this as a "hands off" issue as a libertarian?

[William Terrell]

And I'll sign off here.

I don't want to argue either, and my opinion are my opinion.

But, "There is at least a equal probability that she asks God daily to take her home and out of her misery" is not an opinion. No one knows the inside of Terri. So it is absolutely the truth, and not opinion, that there is at least an even chance that she wants to die.

And that can't be argued with.

[William Terrell]

Sure, I wonder about the motivations of some on any thread on FR.

I read these threads every once in a while and while I'm reluctant to turn life and death decisions over to the court, truth is, the courts have always had to power to make life and death decisions. But that has always had to do with egregious criminal act, which Terri has not comitted.

When I read these threads I come away with an overall impression that Michael Shivaro is the main target and the situation with Terri is to deny him profit and gain in his carelessness or criminality.

If Mr. Shivaro has produced a signed notarized document stating Terri's wishes, no one would be having this discussion now. So the entire discussion turns on his culprability and credibility.

My basic position on Terri Shiavo is that, if she is to be killed, it should be quick. Starvation is cruel.

My second position is that we don't what Terri, herself, wants. All anybodys knows is what they would want if they were having the experience they imagine she is having.

My third position is that if Terri can eat, the feeding tubes should be removed and she is fed by hand orally. If this isn't possible the situation is more dire than many are willing to admit.

My forth position is that relativly recently, if Terri were to find herself unable to sustain life without intravenous feeding, she would have died already.

I feel sorry for Terri, and don't want her to die, if she doesn't want to, but want her to die if she does want to.

Further I saith not.

[cyn]

I appreciate your honesty. Terri receives food and water via a feeding tube that goes right into her stomach (not IV) -- which many people, incl. Christopher Reeve, use. She hasn't been allowed to have the swallowing tests that are supposed to be given regularly -- I believe every 6 months -- because she might aspirate and then die of pneumonia. Yeah!

"Terri Schiavo . . . if she is to be killed, it should be quick." -- being totally absurd here, but I'm thinking maybe we should propose that if her husband and Felos are 'dead' serious (as indeed they are), maybe they should be send her to the electric chair in Starke, FL -- for as you point out, starvation is cruel.

"All anybody knows is what they would want if they were having the experience they imagine she is having." -- Right, and no one can know. Terri is not living the life she or her family dreamed of, but she is in a new reality now. But is Terri in her own private hell or 'psychic or emotional agony'? I believe if she were, we would know that -- her family and friends would know it and one or more of them would have said something.

I hope this makes sense. I usually refrain from posting when I'm so tired to protect myself, lol, and others.

[cyn]

"Further I saith not." -- me neither! good night.

[windchime]

Bump!

[TigersEye]

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Exodus 20:12 ~ "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you."

Not applicable in a case of marriage. Terri's husband has no biblical mandate for honoring his relatives-in-law.

If the first passage is true then her parents would also be his parents making the second passage applicable to him.
If they are truly made one flesh then shouldn't they have to honor each others parents as their own?

[TigersEye]

My basic position on Terri Shiavo is that, if she is to be killed, it should be quick. Starvation is cruel.

Further I saith not.

Further you need not say. Here we have a woman who has suffered an injury in an unknown manner which renders communication extremely difficult for her, who has been deliberately denied assistance to communicate, and it is not the killing of her that disturbs you but just the manner in which she is to be dispatched. Say no more!

[TigersEye]

-- being totally absurd here, but I'm thinking maybe we should propose that if her husband and Felos are 'dead' serious (as indeed they are), maybe they should be send her to the electric chair in Starke, FL -- for as you point out, starvation is cruel.

Not only that it doesn't work. They have tried to starve her twice and she refused to die. Her husband tried to let her die of an infection and that didn't work, she recovered without aid. If she's praying to die (which would be a prayer for suicide) she's not being answered. (Or her prayers are not sincere enough?)

[Palladin]

Good logical thinking, and a correct conclusion.

Some people here are just too full of themselves to even attempt to understand Holy Scripture.

[Wampus SC]

"In that letter, Ms. Bushnell stated that Terri has had five teeth extracted.

Ms. Bushnell offered no reasonable explanation of why this was done, if Terri was appropriately anesthetized, what follow-up care is being prescribed nor if any restorative dental work was to be provided to her."

In my opinion, this is an attempt to cover something else up - like why she lost the 1st 2 teeth; an attempt to hasten her death, or both. I thought we'd already seen the depths of the evil in this case. Now I know we hadn't.

[Pegita]

Amen to the words from both of you ...

[Wampus SC]

"One thing I don't think anyone has considered is Terri's wishes. We don't know what Terri's wishes are. There is at least a equal probability that she asks God daily to take her home and out of her misery."

They've been considered. See back threads. But let's just assume, for sake of argument, that we don't know her wishes are, and there's a 50-50 chance she wants to live or die. That means someone else has the responsibility to get it right, and pull the tube or not. If they leave it in, their action allows her to live. If they pull it out, their action makes her die. Now, suppose you are the person who must decide. What would you do? Remember - your premise is that we don't know what she wants, and, obiously, she can't tell us.

This brings us to the difference between Terri's supporters and Terri's opponents. Terri's supporters are people who will choose life by default. The others, are people who would choose to bring on death, also by default.

"If she were in this fix in an earlier part of the century, she would have passed away already. Only our current high technology is keeping her here."

Feeding tubes aren't exactly high tech, and they've been around a long time. Someone with expertise in them can probably point you to the right information. But so what if earlier she'd die, and now she wouldn't? We're just making progress. Just because something couldn't be treated earlier is no reason not to treat it now, is it? It used to be that many people died of infections that couldn't be treated effectively then, but are easy to treat now. If someone today gets one of those, should they refrain from getting it treated because their great-great-grandfather couldn't have gotten it treated? Would you?

[Lauren BaRecall]

...or join other FReepers at the Throne of Grace at 11 a.m.EDT daily for 5 minutes, as many now do, that this mother's child might be rescued from the pit of hell.

I'm glad to know a time. I will join you.