Michigan City Council OKs Muslim Prayer Over Loudspeaker

Fox News website ^ | April 21 | Associated press

[righteousindignation]

Hamtramck,Mich.--Over some residents' objections, the City Council voted unanimously Tuesday night to allow a mosque to send out a call to prayer to Muslims on a loudspeaker....five times a day.

[seams2me]

"Hamtramck"

that's all you need to know about this story.

[Mears]

Oops! Senator is the word.

[chuckwalla]

First expalin how carols at christmas time is the same as muslim call to prayer five times a day 365 days a year from a religion which many members want us dead.

[wingster]

Touche`!

[Merdoug]

You've got a good point! :)

[Iron Matron]

Women covering their head in church is about respect for the heirarchy in the church: From God to Man to Woman. It is not about women being less than men. WOmen have a God given role, and it is a proper - not subserviant one!

My personal beliefs as a woman, is, I do not want a female leader in the Church, because the traditioanl representation of Christ is as a man.

It's like marriage. Marriage represents the union between Christ and His church, the man representing Christ, the woman representing the Church, therefore, a womans role has been defined by God Himself.


If there are factions who do not really understand the Church and its teachings, they are free to depart from them, but they should not compare it with the opressive taliban or try to change it for their own secular purpose!


P. S. The scripture I wanted is where it says a woman can not wear jewelry or braid their hair. As an afterthought, I should say that I wear no jewelery other than a wedding ring, and I keep my hair long, but never braided this is not due to scripture, just personal preference, but if it's also scriptural, even better! Also, I am not opressed by my husband or anyone else, even though we have a traditional Christian "set up" in our home.

Oppression of women in the USA is often just a state of mind - not of being!

[Iron Matron]

O. K.!

I am going to try and use a new, thoughtful tone in future posts!

[Iron Matron]

Then, the city and/or the Muslims will go to court, and get a judgement -- a restraining order -- prohibiting the Christians from "interfering". If it continues, they will go back to the court, get the Christians to be "found in contempt" -- and be subject to fines, damages, and so forth.

---

Isn't this a bit over the top? I mean, it is this attitude that keeps Christians from standing up for their rights! The muslims are free to practice their religion - so are Christians. If that creates a lot of noise - so be it.

If Christians fail this preliminary test, then our women might as well start trying on burkas!

As for me, I prefer to fight the good fight. Civil war if necessary.

[Iron Matron]

How about you move to Michigan, so that you can tilt at windmills yourself, and show us all how it's done, rather than trying to provoke other people into doing something that might cost them their life savings, future wages, and homes?

Or are you all mouth?

---

Do Joe,

I would LEAD THE CAUSE in my hometown in order to prevent the spread of islam to the rest of the USA. And yes, I WOULD go to Michigan and help all of you fight the fight IF you were actually fighting it.

There is nothing wrong with a Christain reminding other Christians of GODS WORDS on these matters. SOrry if you took it as a personal insult.

I would go to JAIL to protect Christianity, YES.

[antiRepublicrat]

Women covering their head in church is about respect for the heirarchy in the church

It's fine if you're comfortable with that. Most Muslim women are also comfortable with their role in Islamic society.

As an afterthought, I should say that I wear no jewelery other than a wedding ring

I do hope for your sake the ring is not made of gold (1 Peter 3:3 and 1 Timothy 2:9).

But back to the point, a lot of Christians and Muslims do ignore those teachings they consider not appropriate, unneeded or rediculously combersome in modern society. I don't think that makes them any less members of their religions.

[antiRepublicrat]

"cumbersome"

apologies

[righteousindignation]

You are telling the Truth and the Lord will reward you for it.

[hattend]

More silliness from Houston (I'm amazed we didn't do this shit for Japan or Germany in WWII, aren't you?):
====

Incarnate Word decides to drop 'Crusaders'
Web Posted: 04/23/2004 12:00 AM CDT

Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

The University of the Incarnate Word will begin the next school year with a new mascot for its athletic teams after administrators decided Crusaders is offensive to Muslims and inappropriate for a Catholic institution with a multicultural mission.

"We need a mascot that is more culturally sensitive if we are going to continue to have international students and international programs," said faculty member Michael Risku, chairman of the school's mascot task force, an 11-member committee charged with finding a new symbol.

"We don't want anyone to be offended by our mascot," Risku added. "That's all."

The Crusader has served as UIW's mascot since 1980. But in the post-9-11 era, the school's planning commission and faculty senate made the decision to dump it after concluding UIW needs a mascot that is more culturally sensitive, Risku said.

Voting among students for a new mascot ends on April 30. The task force presented students with a list of 46 mascots to choose from, ranging from Angels to Wolves.

The four mascots receiving the most votes will be submitted to the school's planning commission for review. UIW president Louis Agnese is expected to receive two finalists by May 6 and then make the final decision.

The Islamic community has welcomed the move. Nearly 3,200 people of the Islamic faith are members of a local mosque, according to the American Religion Data Archive.

"I'm so glad to hear that they are changing their mascot," said Sarwat Husain, executive director of the local chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations. "I am a graduate (of UIW). I loved that place. But the only thing that bothered me about the school was that name.

"(Crusaders) did not send the right message to the community. Incarnate Word is one of the most tolerant places in our community. Using Crusaders made it sound like the school was not tolerant. It did not match the way that university is. It would be the same as a Muslim school calling itself 'the extremists' or 'the radicals.'"

School officials seeking to portray UIW as an institution that welcomes students of all faiths and cultures agreed. UIW recently opened campuses in Mexico and China and has an international student body of 9 percent, which is one the highest among the nation's universities.

The school, which has an enrollment of 4,434 at its San Antonio campus, hopes to increase its international student body to 15 percent by 2005.

"We need a mascot more in line with the mission of the university, one that does not carry the negative baggage that our present mascot has," said Sister Martha Ann Kirk, a religious studies professor who for years has advocated dropping Crusaders. "Crusaders presents an image of domination and destruction."

The Crusades were a series of religious wars during the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries organized by European powers to recover Christian holy places from Muslims in the Middle East. According to the New American Desk Encyclopedia, "many Christians, Jews, Muslims, zealots and innocents died in the bloody massacres and battles" fought during the Crusades.

"There is a very strong historical memory of the Crusades among Muslims," said David Cook, who teaches Islamic history at Rice University. "The Crusades are seen as a paradigm for the invasion and imperialism (Westerners) have imposed on Muslims in the present time. Among radical Muslims, Westerners are sometimes known as Crusaders.

"For Muslims, there is a very strong fixation on the past," Cook said. "The past is glorious. It is an antecedent for what they consider to be a very dismal present."

UIW's decision to drop Crusaders comes nearly one year after Point Loma Nazarene (Calif.) made the same move, choosing Sea Lions. In 2000, Wheaton College (Ill.) canned Crusaders in favor of Thunder.

Like UIW, those schools decided that using Crusaders was culturally insensitive, given the international interpretation of the term. But nearly 30 other U.S. colleges and universities, including Mary-Hardin Baylor in Belton, College of the Holy Cross (Massachusetts), Valparaiso (Indiana) and the University of Dallas, continue to use the Crusader label.

Mohammed Mustafa, a professor of political science at Cairo University and a Fulbright Teaching scholar at Nazareth (Ohio) College, defended those schools, saying most Muslims have no objection to Crusaders except when it is used in a military context.

"It is not offensive," Mustafa said. "In fact, I would extend an invitation to (UIW's sports teams) to come and play in Cairo, Egypt, and I tell you they would be well received. The president of Cairo University and I would welcome them at the airport and show them the hospitality of the Arab people.

"Now, if they come with guns, that would be a different story."

Noor Jehangir, a freshman who played for UIW's junior varsity men's soccer team last season, said playing for a team known as the Crusaders didn't bother him.

"I understand the history of (the Crusades), that they killed a bunch of Muslims," Jehangir said. "But I'm a Muslim, and it doesn't affect me whatsoever. Maybe if it was that time, I would care. But the past is in the past. Forget about it. Move on. We are taking this too seriously."

Junior Lori Rektorik, a volleyball player and a member of UIW's mascot task force, disagreed.

"Crusaders has a bad connotation to it," Rektorik said. "We want a nickname that would be more fit and inclusive for everyone and not just Americans."

---

torsborn@express-news.net

[Styria]

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=11464

[OrioleFan]

Maybe the solution is to set up loudspeakers near these mosques and play the National Anthem and God Bless America (Kate's version) over top of the call to prayers.

Some good Sousa marches would sound great.

See which one the city council shuts down first. That will tell you where their priorities are. Then vote a new city council (of course, provided there are enough non-muslim votes).

Neighboring communities can complain and elevate it to the state level, and see where they stand.

[Styria]

Another old Lutheran hymn used to include a verse along the lines of "protect us from Pope and Turk."

[Styria]

The difference would be the Liberal outrage if, rather than church bells, church loudspeakers blared "There is no other object of worship but Jesus."

But it's really a matter of courtesy. Church bells are nice. They don't irritate anyone but miserable, rabid atheists. And they aren't played five times a day, every day in America, that I know of, and they aren't a PA system. In my town, dispatch isn't supposed to hit the tones that set off the fire station's siren after dark or before dawn. One poster, however, said that this nonsense is broadcast at 3 AM in Indonesia.

[isthisnickcool]

It's a cult based on evil things.

[Styria]

That's an interesting point. Nevertheless, the Netherlands, where drugs, homosexuality and other sexual permissiveness, abortion, and other things are specifically legalized, are not a primary target of Islam. Why don't they whine about Europe as much as they do us? Why haven't they had more terrorist attacks there?

[omega4412]

You remember correctly -- Googling "Pope and Turk" gives a children's song (!) "Lord, keep us in Thy Word and Work." by Martin Luther, 1483-1546. Text From: THE HYMNS OF MARTIN LUTHER. (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1883), p. 67

1. Lord, keep us in thy word and work,
Restrain the murderous Pope and Turk,
Who fain would tear from off thy throne
Christ Jesus, thy beloved Son.

2. Lord Jesus Christ, thy power make known,
For thou art Lord of lords alone.
Shield thy poor Christendom, that we
May evermore sing praise to thee.

3. God, Holy Ghost, our joy thou art,
Give to thy flock on earth one heart.
Stand by us in our latest need,
And us from death to glory lead.

Hymn XXXIII from "The Hymns of Martin Luther". Author: Martin Luther. Titled: "Erhalt uns, Herr, bei deinem Wort."
Melody: 1543. Harmony: William Sterndale Bennett, 1865

1st Published in: Klug's "Gesangbuch", 1543. "A children's song, to be sung against the two arch-enemies of Christ and his holy Church, the Pope and the Turks."

From the Catholic side...

The appearance of Halley's comet, in 1456, just as the Turks had become masters of Constantinople, and threatened an advance into Europe, was regarded by Christendom with a superstitious dread, and to the Ave Maria was added the prayer: "Lord save us from the devil, the Turk, and the comet." Chambers Encyclopaedia (1877)

From the Anglican liturgy (1565)

The Turk goeth about to set up, to extol, and to magnify that wicked monster and dammed soul Mohumet above thy dearly beloved Son Jesus Christ, whom we in heart believe, and with mouth confess, to be our only Saviour and redeemer.

Moslems and the History of Anglican Liturgy
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:BNhOQ0b_ST0J:www.compusmart.ab.ca/fhenders/pdf/moslems_anglican.pdf+litany+saints++turk&hl=en