The coming of refugees to "Palestine" - A Demographic disaster (translation)

Arutz Sheva ^ | April 15, 2004

[yonif]

Translation from Hebrew to English by me

These words were said by (Israeli Knesset Member) Yuri Shtern in an interview to Arutz 7 made after the press conference held by PM Sharon and US President George Bush.

"If to the three million people who live in the Palestinian Authority areas, areas which are 5200 kilometers square, were to have about 500,000 refugees from Lebanon and hundreds of thousands from Syria and Gulf States added to them, this population will lead to a demographic, social and economic trouble," says Shtern.

"Neighbory relations and the declaration of the situation as a "reconciliation period" will cause the infiltration of Arabs into Israel, and the exploitation of marriages between Israeli Arabs and Yesha Arabs to demand Israel allow the family to unite. This past year, we stopped this process, however in the future it will be hard to prevent the asking families from uniting with the other parts of their lives who are living on the other side of the border."

In relation to the speech made by US President Bush, Shtern said that it was a speech that used vauge and foggy terms and remarks, that were similar to the remarks made by Clinton and Barak in their previous desire to allow Israel to retain 4% of Yesha lands only, and in exchange for those (4% lands) we would give the Palestinian Authority other areas to its control from Israel.

"The rape the Prime Minister is doing to his party is a first in the history of Israeli politics, showing that even it sometimes doesn't act by the book," were the words of Shtern. Even the voting of the Likud members (on the plan) is strange, to his words, because for these "deliberations," being done by Sharon, there are party institutions, mainly the party center, to go to.

Commenting on the possibility Likud will vote for the plan Shtern said: "A nation and parties make mistakes, and sometimes they pay on such mistakes with blood and great hardship."

Even Vice Minister of Education, Zvi Hendel, who lives in Gush Katif, commented on the words of Bush and said: "A cellophane wrapper, as beautiful as it could be, cannot hide a political pacakage that has nothing in it over what Ehud Barak got during his time. Israel got nothing in this speech, but a American clarification that the retreat from Gush Katif is but a first step only, part of the retreat from most areas in Yesha, as the roadmap stipulates. The program will lead to none other the victory of Hamas, the terror, and the murder, and the fulfillment of the warnings made by the Lt. General of the IDF, the head of the Shin Bet and Aman , as the uprooting of Gush Gatif is a prize for terror and it gives a supportive wind to the murderers. From Gaza we left during Oslo, and now they are asking to destroy and uproot the residency in Gush Katif and to expel its residents from their houses."

[yonif]

Ping.

[Congressman Billybob]

The Palestinians are an uncivilized group (I hesitate to use the words nation or people). Until they decide that life and honesty are better than murder and theft, the Palestinians will be incapable of anything other than being a dangerous mob.

Therefore, the physical separation that Israel is about to accomplish, seems to make sense. As for what happens in "Palestine" after that separation, they will descend into chaos, as does any mob when left to its own devices. That is also their choice, such as it is.

Congressman Billybob

Click here, then click the blue CFR button, to join the anti-CFR effort (or visit the "Hugh & Series, Critical & Pulled by JimRob" thread). Please do it now.

[Nonstatist]

now they are asking to destroy and uproot the residency in Gush Katif and to expel its residents from their houses

Israel's leverage is not great, thats the problem. As for controlling the border, they can build the fence and chage their laws as is necessary. You gotta deal with what is,,

[Nonstatist]

now they are asking to destroy and uproot the residency in Gush Katif and to expel its residents from their houses

Israel's leverage is not great, thats the problem. As for controlling the border, they can build the fence and chage their laws as is necessary. You gotta deal with what is,,

[yonif]

Therefore, the physical separation that Israel is about to accomplish, seems to make sense

That is the problem here. There is no physical separation. Phone lines, power lines, water lines, and sewage lines will remain to be connected from Gaza to Israel. In addition Arab workers in Gaza will still be allowed to work in Israel. There is no separation. There is only the removal of Jews from the land. Israel currenly only rules .4% of the population there in Gaza. The Palestinian Authority rules the rest.

[marron]

Maybe its time for new elections.

But the article seems to complain that Sharon is giving up territory without getting anything in return. I think that misses the point.

To me, the point is that Israel has to get out of the business of managing arabs. She needs to pick a line that she is prepared to defend, and seal it. She needs to separate herself from the arabs for a generation.

The location of the line should be chosen unilaterally, based on two things; Israel's security needs, and Israel's willingness to defend it. If Sharon's line is too timidly drawn, then they need to vote him out and put a hawk in his place. If they can't do that, then you can assume that the line he has chosen is the one Israeli citizens are prepared to die for.

But Israel isn't going to get any kind of deal from the arabs, they are incapable of offering one. So unless she wants yet another generation of intifada, she needs to build her wall. Build it where ever she wants to, thats their call, but get it built.

[marron]

In addition Arab workers in Gaza will still be allowed to work in Israel.

Big mistake. At what price, how much blood is Israel willing to shed for cheap labor?

Gaza needs to reintegrate to Egypt. Israel needs to seal her borders; doing so will force Gaza to look elsewhere.

The same holds with the arab territories of the west bank. Their future lies with reintegration to Jordan. The longer Israel delays in sealing the border the more she drags out the process. I can't tell you how insane it sounds for Israel to continue to allow arabs to cross the border into Israel.

[yonif]

To me, the point is that Israel has to get out of the business of managing arabs. She needs to pick a line that she is prepared to defend, and seal it. She needs to separate herself from the arabs for a generation.

If Israel were to get out of the business of trying to manage Arabs, it would have to leave the middle east. Arabs surround her.

The location of the line should be chosen unilaterally, based on two things; Israel's security needs, and Israel's willingness to defend it. If Sharon's line is too timidly drawn, then they need to vote him out and put a hawk in his place. If they can't do that, then you can assume that the line he has chosen is the one Israeli citizens are prepared to die for.

Israel will be gaining nothing by leaving Gaza, in terms of defense. The border there will still need to be patrolled, etc. Leaving Gaza does not shorten its border with Egypt, it simply causes it to be closer to its population centers.

But Israel isn't going to get any kind of deal from the arabs, they are incapable of offering one. So unless she wants yet another generation of intifada, she needs to build her wall. Build it where ever she wants to, thats their call, but get it built.

They will not get any deal from the arabs, which is why they shuldn't be giving to the Arabs Gaza. Build that wall? The wall is useless against tunnels, infiltrations from the sea, and most importantly ariel terror attacks, coming from rockets, mortars, and qassams which already plague the Jewish communities of Gaza. Think of where they will be aimed when Israel leaves Gaza.

[HenryLeeII]

The Israelis and the U.S. have to remain firm and tell these people that if they flood in to the P.A. area, they won't receive any Israeli/U.S. humanitarian aid and won't be allowed to enter Israel-proper. And any U.N. aid should be answered by an equal-or-larger cut in U.S. economic support of those corrput organizations (the U.N. and the P.A.).

This of course is all part of Arafat's "Final Solution at the Ballot Box" plan, whereby Israel is flooded with Arabs and the Jewish state is basically obliterated through the "democratic process." The pseudo-Palestinians don't belong in Israel and shouldn't be allowed in.

[Congressman Billybob]

My understanding of the power, water, and other utilities that cross the line is that all the modern plants that run them are on the Isrraeli (civilized) side of the line. Am I right about that? If so, if the Palestinians don't want their utilities turned off, they have an incentive to fly right.

Also, concerning the Palestinians employed in Israel, cannot the Israeli economy find a way to perform WITHOUT those employees? Hasn't it done so during all the periods that Israel temporarily closed the gates? If so, why not close the gates permanently?

Admittedly, the abysmal standard of living in the Gaza Strip will go further down. But then they will be faced with the discipline of the free market. If they want investment and factories, they have to offer a civilized environment.

Singapore is a shining example of what the free market and social discipline can accomplish in a small area that has dense population and essentially no natural resources. Hong Kong is another example. If the Palestinians continue to live in squalor and desperation, it is a self-inflicted injury.

Your thoughts?

John / Billybob

[yonif]

The US supports these Arabs going to the new "Palestine."

[yonif]

My understanding of the power, water, and other utilities that cross the line is that all the modern plants that run them are on the Isrraeli (civilized) side of the line. Am I right about that? If so, if the Palestinians don't want their utilities turned off, they have an incentive to fly right.

You are correct. But the thing is the Arabs know Israel will never cut off these things no matter what they do. How do you think these things continue to remain in place after this wave of murderous terror these last 3 years, claiming 900 lives? Think of what the world will do if Israel did such a thing.

Also, concerning the Palestinians employed in Israel, cannot the Israeli economy find a way to perform WITHOUT those employees? Hasn't it done so during all the periods that Israel temporarily closed the gates? If so, why not close the gates permanently?

Israel has quite a few foreigners from Thailand, eastern Europe, etc. But it is cracking down on them because they come to stay, and the fact they are not Jewish is a big problem too. Even if Israel didn't need the Arabs, they have to let them in because Israel is considered an "occupier" of Gaza, so it has to look after the welfare of those Arabs. So it must let them work in Israel.

Admittedly, the abysmal standard of living in the Gaza Strip will go further down. But then they will be faced with the discipline of the free market. If they want investment and factories, they have to offer a civilized environment.

The Arab idea of free market in Gaza is a diversity of bomb-making factories and qassam rocket labortories. Their first priority is the "resistance." Their second priority is their own welfare. Notice the many parents who committ terror, kids who do it, teachers, lawyers, etc.

Singapore is a shining example of what the free market and social discipline can accomplish in a small area that has dense population and essentially no natural resources. Hong Kong is another example. If the Palestinians continue to live in squalor and desperation, it is a self-inflicted injury.

The Arabs there are just like the Arabs throughout the Arab world. Their closed culture does not recognize these values. The Arabs have brought it upon themselves.

[SJackson]

My understanding of the power, water, and other utilities that cross the line is that all the modern plants that run them are on the Isrraeli (civilized) side of the line. Am I right about that? If so, if the Palestinians don't want their utilities turned off, they have an incentive to fly right.

Utilities are always an issue. Israel has threatened to shut off electricity on several occasions, Gaza Power (or whatever they’re called) doesn’t like to pay the bill. I’m sure the EU will build them a power plant if it comes to that, or Iran, nuclear anyone? The palestinian’s have been complaining for years that Israel has been stealing water from Gaza, if true they can retaliate. Telephone, so much overcapacity worldwide the Gazicans will be able to cut a deal.

I have noted a few articles stating that Israel will cut off utilities in response to terror attacks, once security is in the hands of the PA. Can’t wait to hear the outcry if that happens. If they want a state to run their own lives rather than export terror, they’re going to get their chance.

Also, concerning the Palestinians employed in Israel, cannot the Israeli economy find a way to perform WITHOUT those employees? Hasn't it done so during all the periods that Israel temporarily closed the gates? If so, why not close the gates permanently?

It’s a strawman the way it’s played in the press. Israel has no problem importing labor from the far east or eastern Europe. Keeping tabs on them, and getting them to leave, that’s a different issue. If Israel solves it, maybe they’ll help the US. Better illegal Thais or Ukranians in the country than palentinians.

If you think back to the press coverage of the many border closures the last three years, the complaints haven’t come from rich Israelis complaining about household help, rather from Palestinians and their Euro friends decrying their inability to get to their jobs and earn a living. Pre-intifada the Palestinians had the highest standard of living in the Arab world (I’m not certain they still don’t). If terror continues, Egypt and Jordan will build industrial plants near the borders, and their standard of living will rise. Losing your job is the price you pay when you want to kill the boss.

Admittedly, the abysmal standard of living in the Gaza Strip will go further down. But then they will be faced with the discipline of the free market. If they want investment and factories, they have to offer a civilized environment…Singapore is a shining example of what the free market and social discipline can accomplish in a small area that has dense population and essentially no natural resources. Hong Kong is another example. If the Palestinians continue to live in squalor and desperation, it is a self-inflicted injury.

You’re right, they have a choice here. The status of the Eretz Industrial Park in northern Gaza, which employs 4,000 palestinians is up in the air. A sensible Gazican authority would ask Israel to keep it open.

Unaddressed in all the recent articles on the withdrawal is the fact that Israel is spending in excess of 10% of GDP on defense, much of it on operational issues, not building their systems to confront the Egyptian-Saudi threat that’s being built. No negotiating partner is going to emerge this decade. It seems to me that prudent long term planning requires establishing defensible lines, and defending them. You can’t patrol Gaza forever in hopes of successful negotiations. It’s a tragedy for the 7,500 Jews being expelled, who didn’t want much more than a place to live their lives, but it’s an unfortunate fact.