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Hackworth: Not Iraq's Finest
Military.Com ^

Posted on 04/15/2004 10:10:37 PM PDT by Happy2BMe

April 14, 2004

In blood-spattered Iraq, seasoned American soldiers and extraordinarily capable retired U.S. Army sergeants currently employed by the Vinnell Corporation have been busting their butts trying to forge a post-Saddam Iraqi army. It's probably the most daunting task either of these outfits has ever faced - and both have plenty of experience turning rabble into effective fighting machines.

Today's gold standard in this type of exercise is the U.S. Army's molding of the South Korean army, which pound for mean pound has become one of the best-trained and disciplined armies in the world.

This time around, the master plan calls for standing up 27 Iraqi battalions by the end of the year. Four battalions have graduated, but the 1st Battalion is already on its second commander. The first CO got bounced after only a few months for wheeling and dealing the way it used to work under the previous regime and the way it worked for countless centuries before Saddam Hussein shot his way into dictatorship.

Although Uncle Deep Pockets has sunk almost $100 million into this effort, none of the units is considered combat-ready. On average, all have about 25 percent of their soldiers on leave and 20 percent AWOL at any one time.

A Vinnell trainer says: "No one wants to rate them combat-ready because this is too risky - it would mean somebody's career slides down the tubes if one of these units got whipped. However, no one wanted to rate them not combat-ready either, because that would imply that all the money, time and effort devoted to these units had been wasted."

Yet our high brass has been stating that the training of the Iraqi army is already a tremendous success. Nothing is being said about most of the Kurds refusing to serve because of their feelings toward the Arabs. Nor that a lot of the men volunteering for the Iraqi army are of poor quality and seem to be signing up only for a quick buck: They join for a few weeks and then quit after they've picked up a few dinars. In one day alone last month, 139 NCO School candidates handed in their quit slips because they were Arabs who couldn't get along with Kurds or visa versa, or they didn't like the training or were just homesick and headed out the front gate.

It's rush, rush, rush to field an Iraqi army - regardless of quality - to replace our overextended forces. Otherwise, there's no way we'll ever be able to execute our nonexistent exit plan.
This con game reminds me of Vietnam when Richard Nixon ordered the war turned over to the Vietnamese so we could get our boys home muy pronto. Back then, the subterfuge was called "Vietnamization." I spent three years training some of the better units in the South Vietnamese army - Airborne, Ranger and Special Forces - and from the beginning it was clear that the effort was mission impossible - kind of like trying to turn a two-wheeled bike into a Sherman tank.

If we delude ourselves again as we did with the South Vietnamese army and cut and run too soon, all our sacrifices in Iraq will have been in vain. And right now, my take is that the new Iraqi army couldn't handle a tug-of-war with a Brownie troop, let alone the sort of serious stand-up, knock-down firefights we're seeing in Iraq, or the civil wars flickering on and off between the Kurds and Arabs and Sunni and Shiite Muslims that could easily blow up into major conflagrations.

In the movie "The Last Samurai," when Tom Cruise is ordered to take his newly trained Japanese soldiers into battle before they're ready, their defeat is painfully predictable. A Vinnell trainer puts the Iraqi army in the same category: "Even though they've been trained, they're a long way from being battle-ready," he says. "In short, they're not capable of doing what the Coalition Forces are doing right now, and they won't be for a long time."

Let's pray that we've learned from the past or at least from Hollywood and take the time to forge an effective Iraqi army in fact rather than hype before we pack up our toys and boys and beat feet back to the home front.


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: iraq; iraqisecurityforces
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To: DB
"We simply will not allow Iran to invade and survive."
We are allowing them to send in terrorist surrogates though.
21 posted on 04/15/2004 10:37:30 PM PDT by Betaille ("Show them no mercy, for none shall be shown to you")
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To: Happy2BMe
the iranian army seems to be pretty inept if there war with iraq was any indication + i think many young iranians would rather revolt than fight.. iran has terror, though
22 posted on 04/15/2004 10:37:59 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch (I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it)
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To: Happy2BMe
The problem I have with the Author is his negativity, and I no longer place much stock in his opinions. Hackworth was a true leader of men and I salute him for his service, but these days he's just a Hack siding with the left and stuck in the past. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING going on in Iraq can be compared to Vietnam. That comparison cannot be supported by the facts on the ground.
23 posted on 04/15/2004 10:39:09 PM PDT by MJY1288 (2 Things You Wont Find at a Kerry Campaign Rally... A Leader, and an American Flag in the Crowd)
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To: Happy2BMe
"I predict we'll have large forces on the ground in Iraq for a minimimum of ten years."

Of course. That's been clear from the outset.

A chief purpose of Iraq all along has been to secure a base in the Middle East from which we could threaten (and attack) any vermin that raised their head above the horizon.

Saudi Arabia was unsatisfactory for that purpose -- politically and militarily -- so we moved to Iraq.

We'll be in Iraq until the WOT is over. And that could be ten years...

24 posted on 04/15/2004 10:42:14 PM PDT by okie01 (www.ArmorforCongress.com...because Congress isn't for the morally halt and the mentally lame.)
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To: Happy2BMe
The US left Vietnam due to politics, not military losses. Were the ARVNs ready? Doesen't look that way. The US military got blamed for losing the war, when in reality, they did not.

The political types who handed the war off to the second string too soon lost it. The media who applied the pressure, the protesters in the streets, the Jane Fondas and John Kerrys and every person who contributed to the domestic loss of resolve all contributed to that loss, as did anyone who, wittingly or otherwise gave aid and comfort to the enemy.

So why let (help?) history repeat itself?

Hack has a point, not one of defeatism or Iraq equals Vietnam, just a warning not to make a fundamental mistake under the same type of political pressure, from, oddly enough, many of the same people.

25 posted on 04/15/2004 10:42:21 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (C'est la guerre.)
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To: DB
With Vietnam there were the Chinese and Soviets supplying the attackers.---

In Iraq we have Syria, and Iran and the rest of the stinking "Arab Street" supplying the attackers.

In Nam we were handcuffed by too many rules of engagement.
Same thing in Iraq now.

In Nam, the generals kept asking for more troops
Now in Iraq, we need more troops already.

Yep lots of similarities. Iraq doesn't have to end the same way Nam did....... unless we fight it the same way.

26 posted on 04/15/2004 10:43:08 PM PDT by TomasUSMC
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To: Betaille
We are allowing them to send in terrorist surrogates though.

And eliminating them....

27 posted on 04/15/2004 10:45:36 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (C'est la guerre.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
"And eliminating them...."

Are we? Sadr is still sitting pretty cozy. We can't fight this war with a hand tied behind our back. If Iran is sending in militants, we have a right to strike at Iran itself.


28 posted on 04/15/2004 10:47:46 PM PDT by Betaille ("Show them no mercy, for none shall be shown to you")
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To: Betaille
Pull out your atlas and see where Iran is in relation to Iraq and Afghanistan.

It doesn't hurt to let the terrorists come to our troops for a while.

I may be wrong, but IMHO, part of our mission there is to let the terrorists expend themselves there, rather than in the US. Expanding into Iran may give things the appearance of trying to dominate the entire region, something which could provoke all-out war with all of Islam.

Holding to our stated mission is one thing. Expanding that mission would be another.

29 posted on 04/15/2004 11:01:20 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (C'est la guerre.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Although the Iraqi forces have not performed well. They don't have to be the best trained army in the world or even close to it. Most of these terrorists/baathists/thugs are pretty ineffective in a straight up fight. If we train the Iraqis adequately, put them under tough Iraqi commanders (who will deal harshly with deserters - something we can't really do), support them with small groups of special force units that can call in accurate air support - like we did in Afghanistan - we can defeat these groups after the bulk of our forces withdraw to any bases we establish.
30 posted on 04/16/2004 12:53:51 AM PDT by DHerion (The terrorists are no the NVA)
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To: DB
Iran would be foolish to cross the border while we are there. However, what happens when the Iraqi Army is deemed reliable rnough for internal security duties? All of a sudden there will be 130,000 plus American troops freed up to potentially cross the border in the other direction. That is a good part of our motivation to develop a reliablie Iraqi Army.
31 posted on 04/16/2004 1:16:26 AM PDT by Poodlebrain
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To: Poodlebrain
I agree.

My point was that that the comparisons to Vietnam are faulty (to put it kindly).
32 posted on 04/16/2004 1:37:46 AM PDT by DB (©)
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To: okie01
Try 20.
33 posted on 04/16/2004 4:56:45 AM PDT by Happy2BMe (U.S.A. - - United We Stand - - Divided We Fall - - Support Our Troops - - Vote BUSH)
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: Happy2BMe
That's ~5 decades less than we did in Germany and Japan. 3 less than Korea. And still counting on all three locales.
35 posted on 04/16/2004 5:17:23 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (This space intentionally blank)
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To: FreedomPoster
Make that 4 less than Korea.
36 posted on 04/16/2004 5:17:52 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (This space intentionally blank)
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To: Happy2BMe
I responded before I'd read all the way thru the thread. It's obvious I was preaching to the choir.
37 posted on 04/16/2004 10:10:57 AM PDT by okie01 (www.ArmorforCongress.com...because Congress isn't for the morally halt and the mentally lame.)
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To: Happy2BMe
bttt
38 posted on 04/16/2004 12:51:14 PM PDT by Deadeye Division
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To: Happy2BMe
Johnny "Hackworthless" Cash has had his 15 minutes of fame!

I can't stand the guy!

39 posted on 04/16/2004 12:54:14 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Betaille
Are we? Sadr is still sitting pretty cozy.

Contrary to popular belief, real wars are not fought with an eye towards 20 minutes between commercial breaks or 1-1/2 hours maximum for a feature movie.

Too many people find themselves getting frustrated that this war in Iraq is not scheduled like all the wars they've watched on television, rented at the video store, or sat through at their local theaters.

40 posted on 04/16/2004 1:07:06 PM PDT by been_lurking
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