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WEAPONS OF THE WORLD: XM-8 Melts During Tests
StrategyPage.com ^ | April 14, 2004

Posted on 04/15/2004 12:03:29 PM PDT by John Jorsett

The U.S. Army has asked Congress for an extra $26 million to buy 7,000 XM-8 rifles next year. These weapons would be used to equip to infantry brigades and thus give the rifle a wide scale test. The money requested would also pay for the staff needed to monitor the testing. The rifle has already undergone thousands of hours of user testing and there have been some recommendations, all minor. The buttons on the sight are to be rearranged, to make the sight easier to use. There were also complaints about battery life for the sight, and a new battery is being obtained that will boost battery life from 200 to 400 hours. A more serious problem arose when the hand guard began to melt when several hundred rounds were fired in a few minutes. It was expected that the barrel would get very hot in these situations, but the heat resistant hand guard material was thought capable of dealing with that. So now a new hand guard will be needed, with more heat shielding. This will add some weight to the weapon, which is now 6.4 pounds. The designers are trying to get the weight down to 5.7 pounds. The issue of changing the caliber from 5.56mm to 6.8mm is still taking place in the background, with there not even being official recognition that there are 6.8mm version of the XM-8 being tested. There is a bit of competition among combat divisions to be the first to get the rifles for the 2005 test, with many officers lobbying to get one of their divisions brigades selected.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: assaultrifle; bang; banglist; hecklerkoch; hk; m8; miltech; servicerifle; xm8
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To: ovrtaxt; null and void
First time I saw one of those things I was a college student drunk in Key West. We were stumbling down the street when this big black thing flies right into my face, almost took me down (a weak breeze would have done the job at that point.) I was wondering what the heck it was when someone told me it was a roach. Hated them ever since.

They deserves what they gets... ; )

61 posted on 04/16/2004 11:09:09 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: big ern
Archy since you laid hands on this thing I think you should start the thread to name it.

You've got 'til tonight to do this or I'm hi-jacking the idea.

Go for it. But the troops using the things may have other ideas, as per the USAF-derived designation of *Thunderbolt II* for the A-10 aircraft, replaced in fact by *Warthawg* by those actually in the drivers' seats.

62 posted on 04/16/2004 11:43:59 AM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: big ern
Hey Archy. I thought the this was a German design that was to be built in America. Am I incorrect on the second part.

It is, and if adopted, it likely will be built at the new Georgia H&K facility. I haven't been around that area since Christmas, so I don't know how progress on the facility is coming, but the XM-8 is a long way from adoption and production anyway.

But production here does not preclude production elsewhere as well, or sales to other users. And it may be that as with the 7mm Mauser bolt-action repeaters we faced in the 1898 war with Spain in Cuba, or the stamped MP44/Stg44 Sturmgewehren of the German assault troops of WWII, someone else will jump on the idea of an advanced small arms platform first, and we'll pick it up only after deficiencies in our current hardware become too obvious, probably as a political football.

63 posted on 04/16/2004 11:49:57 AM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: Long Cut
I have no doubt in my mind that, informed of the capability, the Air Force would grab a blue rifle with both hands. They'd go for the chrome barrel, too. Oh, yeah, and a white sling.

The first M16 [not M16A1] I carried and used in Vietnam, during the Tet 1968 attack on Saigon's Ton Son Nhut airport, was an Air Force honor guard rifle with blue plastic or heavily painted stocks, grip and foreend and exactly the white sling you describe. The sling was *lost* less than 10 minutes after I left their armorer's room with the rifle and last three aluminum 20-round *waffle* magazines they had, the outsides of which had been polished and Brasso-ed to a chromelike shine. They still functioned fine though, and my fatigue jacket shirt pockets were all the ammunition pouches I needed.

64 posted on 04/16/2004 11:55:52 AM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: Sender
...so is there going to be an XM-8 semiauto for sale after the AW ban expires?

All it'll take is an exterior housing for the modular components, the interior mechanism being so close to the H&K G36 as to be negligable, and available in the semi-auto SL-8 version.

That's already available reworked into the H&K G36 configuration as used by the German Bundeswehr, the Spanish Army and Foreign Legion, and others. AlpineTech performs the G36 conversions, and no doubt has their eye closely on the XM-8.


65 posted on 04/16/2004 12:06:25 PM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: Long Cut
BTW, I'm assuming there were HK reps about when you got your little play-time. Any of them say anything about a civvie model, or were they mum about it?

We were in a VERY military enviornment, and even the question of police sales wasn't raised. I'd say the probability is better than 50%, though a civvie model may come from a subcontractor or spinoff company rather than the *official* H&K parent company.

66 posted on 04/16/2004 12:09:49 PM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: Woahhs
Well I like "Der Schprocket" as in "time for schprockets to dance!" But to tell you the truth, the damn thing reminds me of a "hogie."

The French refer to their FAMAS G2 rifles as le clairon, *the bugle* due to its short appearance and musicle instrument-like sight mount/carry handle.

Russian troops in Chechnya and elsewhere refer to the lengthy SVD Dragunov sniper's rifle as *the oar* and to some British troops still claim their SA80/L85A2 bullpup rifles as *The Enfield* or *Tin Nelly.* I hope the XM-8 manages a little better than any of those. *Eightball* seems an unfortunate but likely possibility.

67 posted on 04/16/2004 12:15:26 PM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: archy
"*Eightball* seems an unfortunate but likely possibility."

Of course, Spanish-speaking Soldiers are likely to call it some variation of "Ocho".

68 posted on 04/16/2004 12:54:37 PM PDT by Long Cut ("Fightin's commenced, Ike, now get to fightin' or get outta the way!"...Wyatt Earp, in Tombstone)
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To: archy
Maybe I need to re-read all the thread, but I have one question..

With all this "modular" design and such, I find no mention of being able to configure this weapon for LEFT HANDERS..
Is there a left handed ejection port configuration?

While I always qualified expert throughout 9 years in the army, I got Damn Tired of buttoning up my collar every time I had to fire my weapon.

69 posted on 04/16/2004 4:04:54 PM PDT by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Drammach
Maybe I need to re-read all the thread, but I have one question..

With all this "modular" design and such, I find no mention of being able to configure this weapon for LEFT HANDERS.. Is there a left handed ejection port configuration?

While I always qualified expert throughout 9 years in the army, I got Damn Tired of buttoning up my collar every time I had to fire my weapon.

The one I fired was not so arranged; ejection was out the right side, though more happily it's pretty much straight out the ejection port at around 90º, not rearward to bounce off the nose or in the eyes of a southpaw-side shooter. If there's a leftward-ejection version available, it wasn't mentioned, one reason I'm about equally fond of the XM-8 and the southpaw [or driver]-adaptable French FAMAS G2. The real advance, of course, would be downward ejection, probably requiring a Calico-type helical-type feed atop the receiver. But we're getting there.

I agree with you about the problem of rightside ejection for lefties, and it's not *just* limited to southpaws, either. H&K has been making a big fuss over the ambidextrous operating controlds on the new rifle, now if they'd just take that one extra step...but I've also been playing with a reversed Kalishnikov action design for tank crews and the like, and it features a bullpup configuration with ejection to the left side and forward, very neat for either left-handers or righties. And the top-mounted magazine is easily available for quick changes with either hand, and there's a sight rail on either side, with the operator mounting an optical sight on the side of his/her preference, with backup iron sights on the other. Developing...

70 posted on 04/16/2004 4:20:43 PM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: Drammach
The XM-8 along with the M16-A2 has a brass deflector molded into the upper reciever. Did you ever shoot the M16-A2 and have problems with brass? I know that it was a pain with the M16 and M16-A1 for lefties but I don't remember any lefties complaining about the A2.
71 posted on 04/16/2004 6:42:42 PM PDT by Tailback
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To: gura
True, most infantry units over there are issuing at least one M-14 per platoon for a designated marksman. The M-4 carbine does the close in work, but that SDM reaches out and affects someone with predjudice...

Also, anyone who can get their hands on a M1911, does so.

regards,
72 posted on 04/16/2004 6:48:06 PM PDT by Thunder 6
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To: Long Cut
I didn't think we'd actually get to name the rifle officially. I just thought it would be a really fun thread. Almost like my "Guess what I saw on my ride-along with the Seattle PD and I'll donate 20 bucks to FR in your name" thread.
73 posted on 04/16/2004 7:55:31 PM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (Next up in the hiring process is the polygraph. Time to practice. Yes No Yes No No No No)
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To: Sender
so is there going to be an XM-8 semiauto for sale after the AW ban expires?

Probably, you can already buy a Politically Correct semi auto version of the G-36, from which the XM-8 is derived


74 posted on 04/16/2004 9:29:02 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: Cobra Scott
The AW import ban of 89 does not sunset. Just the domestic manufacture addition of 94.

That just means they'll make them in a US facility. They already have at least one.

75 posted on 04/16/2004 9:32:36 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: Tailback
Never fired the M16A2..
I got out in '80...
fired 14, 16, 16A1..
76 posted on 04/16/2004 10:55:15 PM PDT by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: John Jorsett
The U.S. Army has asked Congress for an extra $26 million to buy 7,000 XM-8 rifles next year.

That sounds like almost $4K per rifle for some sort of an m16 replacement. I'm definitely in the wrong business. You can buy really fine rifles (Blasers) for that, and you can buy better military rifles for a hell of a lot less.

77 posted on 04/16/2004 11:01:14 PM PDT by judywillow
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To: archy
One example I have seen of the left-handed ejection option is the Beretta Cx4 Storm. ( Latest issue American Rifleman pgs. 18-19.. )

I believe there is another model with the same optional left or right ejection available as well. ( although in pistol calibers )
Seems to me that if the U.S. Government is going to invest in the latest, most innovative arms for their troops, then left-right/ambidextrous is a must..
Just a guess, but if 30% of your combat force is left-handed, firing a right handed weapon really cuts down on combat effectiveness..

In my case, I'm able to shoot left or right handed equally well, but I'm blind in the right eye..
In order to shoot a long arm of any kind right handed, I have to lay the bridge of my nose against the stock.. OK for a lever-action, or some light calibers, like the Ruger 22, but a real (literal) pain with a 1903 Springfield ..
I warned my brother about that bolt, but he ignored me and ruined a brand new pair of $300 glasses..

My Remington 1100 12 ga. is a left-hander, and it has spoiled me.. I will never buy another right handed long arm as long as I live..

78 posted on 04/16/2004 11:18:54 PM PDT by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: aft_lizard
Too bad its the Germans making this rifle, why couldnt a American company make it

Cheaper to outsource it.

79 posted on 04/16/2004 11:22:48 PM PDT by Euro-American Scum (A poverty-stricken middle class must be a disarmed middle class)
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To: Drammach
My Remington 1100 12 ga. is a left-hander, and it has spoiled me.. I will never buy another right handed long arm as long as I live..

I've always been fond of the Ithaca Model 37 pump shotgun, which both loads from the bottom and ejects downward. That's a busy little feeding and ejection cycle going on in a small place, but they work nicely.

80 posted on 04/16/2004 11:39:21 PM PDT by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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