WEAPONS OF THE WORLD: XM-8 Melts During Tests

StrategyPage.com ^ | April 14, 2004

[John Jorsett]

The U.S. Army has asked Congress for an extra $26 million to buy 7,000 XM-8 rifles next year. These weapons would be used to equip to infantry brigades and thus give the rifle a wide scale test. The money requested would also pay for the staff needed to monitor the testing. The rifle has already undergone thousands of hours of user testing and there have been some recommendations, all minor. The buttons on the sight are to be rearranged, to make the sight easier to use. There were also complaints about battery life for the sight, and a new battery is being obtained that will boost battery life from 200 to 400 hours. A more serious problem arose when the hand guard began to melt when several hundred rounds were fired in a few minutes. It was expected that the barrel would get very hot in these situations, but the heat resistant hand guard material was thought capable of dealing with that. So now a new hand guard will be needed, with more heat shielding. This will add some weight to the weapon, which is now 6.4 pounds. The designers are trying to get the weight down to 5.7 pounds. The issue of changing the caliber from 5.56mm to 6.8mm is still taking place in the background, with there not even being official recognition that there are 6.8mm version of the XM-8 being tested. There is a bit of competition among combat divisions to be the first to get the rifles for the 2005 test, with many officers lobbying to get one of their divisions brigades selected.

[archy]

"Spray and pray" may have been a suitable philosophy in old jungle wars, but in urban warfare where noncombataants are 90% of the population, and hostle TV cameras are filming your every shot and consequence.....

Darn! Hey, guys, sorry about that reporter, the cameraman, the two assistant producers and the anchorman. Hey sarge, gimme another mag....

[Robert A Cook PE]

Globally/politically/strategically, the TV crews aiming a camera at our troops are most likely more dangerous than the guys aiming a gun at them.

[Long Cut]

LOL! Yeah, I've seen that one. You know, those of us in other services wouldn't kid the AF so much if they didn't make it so damned EASY.

The Navy is looking at adopting a new uniform to replace the Utilities (dungarees to the old salts), the coveralls, and also looking to eliminate a few of the more redundant uniforms from the seabag. Reportedly, they're looking at grey-colored BDU's.

I'd personally LOVE to lose the Whites and the "Working Blues". Both are virtually useless and difficult to keep clean. All ANY seviceman needs is a formal uniform for ceremonial events and other occaisions, and a "working uniform" for everything else.

It chafes us that other services can wear their BDU's offbase, but we can't do that with ANY of our "work" uniforms, not even Utilities.

[archy]

Also, anyone who can get their hands on a M1911, does so.

Some things haven't changed much in 88 years.

[Travis McGee]

In this month's Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, he states that .45s are MUCH in demand in Iraq. He says that while it's very easy to take personal weapons INTO Iraq, getting them home past the nervous Nelly legal types is a real hassle. The work-around twofer, he says, is that buddies are passing their personal .45 on to buddies in their relieving units. The privately owned .45s are getting a workout!

BTW, we ve got a self-righteous Kraut on the Fallujah Sniper thread. "Hun in the Sun" is playing along well as a patsy.

[R. Scott]

Camp Perry? Oh, you were one of those people!

[archy]

Camp Perry? Oh, you were one of those people!

That's Camp Perry [and the 5th Army matches, too!] NOT Camp Peary. Honest.

Probably.

[Thunder 6]

Archy:

Once again, I am humbled by your encyclopaedic facts and photos! Boy, that .45 outta put the 'fear of allah' in those bubbas in the last photo!
regards,

[Terabitten]

Yeah, it's a safe bet every single one of these will be made in plants situated in the US when it goes into actual service.

It's been reported in the local newspaper here in Columbus, GA (Ft. Benning, Home of the Infantry bump!) that H&K is going to build a plant here to produce new M4 uppers and the new M8 once it's adopted. Don't know for sure though.

[Kozak]

It's got this dynamite grenade launcher that can "reach out and touch someone" around corners and behind walls via a laser ranged proximity fuse. Double plus good.

[Euro-American Scum]

Also, anyone who can get their hands on a M1911, does so.

Some things haven't changed much in 88 years.

Some things shouldn't.

[archy]

Also, anyone who can get their hands on a M1911, does so.

Some things haven't changed much in 88 years.

Some things shouldn't.

Well, there've been developments like stainless steels and other corrosion-resistant materials worth exploring and adopting if proven suitable. And though the reliability of the Para-Ordnance P-14 weapons has been less than I'm happy with, that too is a development potentially worthy of refinement and perfection.

Likewise, the materials available for quality holsters are now more numerous from when there was but one: leather, though that traditional answer remains a good one and probably will be for the remainder of my days. And the closest thing I can think of to the currently popular *tactical* flashlights backin the days of the first M1910/M1911 pistols would have been a carbide-powered press-to-lite acetyline lamp, with a kerosene lantern more commonplace. Those accessory rails for flashlights and laser killdots may have their place too.

Nor is the M1911/M1911A1/M27 the best choice foe everyone. But it works for me.

[archy]

It's got this dynamite grenade launcher that can "reach out and touch someone" around corners and behind walls via a laser ranged proximity fuse. Double plus good.

Has it got a red button on the bottom?

[Euro-American Scum]

And though the reliability of the Para-Ordnance P-14 weapons has been less than I'm happy with, that too is a development potentially worthy of refinement and perfection.

I don't know about that, archy. I've got a P-14 Ltd. And I'm so happy with it, I'm close to buying my second one. I like the high cap. mags. And the weapon has performed with close to Glock-like reliability after somewhere between 5,000 and 7,500 rounds. I couldn't ask for better performance from any 1911.

[Darksheare]

I have red/green colorblindness, but oddly that seemed to make the green BDU's stand out like a sore thumb.
It was mighty amusing to tell my Cap that there were some troops siutting off in the brush nearby, and have him tell me they weren't there because he couldn't see them.
To me, they were as plain as day!

The XM-8.. when I was in uniform, i'd have killed to have something that was fairly light, could be turned and used quickly in brush, and had the ability to fire zillions of rounds in a pinch if I had to do so.
I like the drum mag option, and the mini-203.
I'd also like all the above to be on an accurate rifle, wickedly accurate if possible.
But, I know I'm dreaming on that one.
For it to be accurate, light, and short enough for brush use, accuracy suffers from use of a shorter barrel.

[archy]

I have red/green colorblindness, but oddly that seemed to make the green BDU's stand out like a sore thumb. It was mighty amusing to tell my Cap that there were some troops siutting off in the brush nearby, and have him tell me they weren't there because he couldn't see them. To me, they were as plain as day!

Tankers using the 20x main gun sight sometimes had the same problem with Infantry officers who saw nothing in their 7x binoculars. Neither did it hurt that we had a 52-ton bipood rest for our optics.

The XM-8.. when I was in uniform, i'd have killed to have something that was fairly light, could be turned and used quickly in brush, and had the ability to fire zillions of rounds in a pinch if I had to do so.

I saw relatively few 30-round magazines for the M16A1 during my 1968-70 tours, though a few adaptations from AK magazines were also around. We'd have happily settled for that.

I like the drum mag option, and the mini-203.
I'd also like all the above to be on an accurate rifle, wickedly accurate if possible.
But, I know I'm dreaming on that one.
For it to be accurate, light, and short enough for brush use, accuracy suffers from use of a shorter barrel.

Up to a point. But if you're in and out of a vehicle all day, or working from the confines of a bunker, or face other circumstances that make a shortyu barrel desirable, it's nice to know that there's a longer barrel capable of maybe twice the usable accuracy in your rucksack or footlocker if you care to swap it out.

And note that a shorter barrel that's thicker and more rigid is not itself necessarily less accurate, suffering less from the vibrations and *whip* of a longer tube, though velocity of the bullet from it will necessarily be lesser.

[archy]

And though the reliability of the Para-Ordnance P-14 weapons has been less than I'm happy with, that too is a development potentially worthy of refinement and perfection.

I don't know about that, archy. I've got a P-14 Ltd. And I'm so happy with it, I'm close to buying my second one. I like the high cap. mags. And the weapon has performed with close to Glock-like reliability after somewhere between 5,000 and 7,500 rounds. I couldn't ask for better performance from any 1911.

I'm glad you got a good one and are happy with it; so too was the physician who swapped his Combat Commander frame for one from Para-Ordnance and is perfectly happy with the result, just as I was quite happy to get his old Colt frame.

But note that the FBI's HRT team, very dedicated .45 M1911 users, replaced the double-column magazine versions for general FBI SWAT issue and returned to the single column magazines. Those who luck out and have a perfectly reliable one or whose ammunition choice is similarly compatable with the guns will be similarly pleased, I'd expect; others perhaps less so, the reason, presumably, that P-O also offers their single stack versions.

Neither do I care much for the double-action triggers now found on many Para-Ord offerings,though some users are stuck with that functionality by agency or department edict, and some do prefer it.

But I'll not carp about the usual workmanship of Para-Ordnance products. Those I've fired and handled have generally been top-notch.

[Euro-American Scum]

Neither do I care much for the double-action triggers now found on many Para-Ord offerings,though some users are stuck with that functionality by agency or department edict, and some do prefer it.

I'll grant you that. I've got a 12.45 LDA and still haven't decided whether or not I like it. Even though it has performed as reliably as my P-14 Ltd.

I guess I don't see the point to it. But then, I've never had any problem -- of confidence or anything else -- carrying a single action 1911 cocked and locked.

[Darksheare]

52 ton bipod.. LOL!
I can imagine that having 20x magnification and a mounting that didn't bounce when you breathe would be a HUGE advantage, yes. *chuckle*
Infuriating when you can see something and others tell you it's not there.

Especially when that something you see shows up later to squash you, and you tell those who said it wasn't there that nothing at all showed up to squash you.


True, I didn't take into account the thick short barrel deal.
*sighs*
I liked the drum mag because I always found that I ended up low on ammo in the middle of a little dust scrap with the OpFor team during AT, and we were 'only' allowed two mags of blank ammo for the 16's for the entire duration of AT.
Being able to lay down cover fire for your team makes sense, and being able to shoot for longer time periods without having to swap out mags would have been a boon to me and 'my team' as well.

I'd been looking to get my hands, or my unit's hands, on an M-4 carbine or a Colt Commando for the 'doomed' on advance party.
Slightly less range and accuracy when compared to the -16, but a good trade-off for brush work.
We, of course, couldn't get our hands on those either by hook or crook.
(The sound suppressor on the M-4 would have been nice.. especially when one runs into the 'neighbors' unexpectedly, and you're next to their BP.)
I was always told I was 'nuts' for trying to modify AP into what they termed an assault force.
(???)
Wasn't an assault force in my eyes, just trying to give us an 'unfair advantage' to save our own skins should we have had to do that 'for real' at any point in time.

OUCH about the rarity of 30 round mags at that time.
Of course, having been issued two 10 round mags for no apparent reason a few times and getting told that there wasn't an alternative, I tended to get nervous about the ammo situation really rapidly!
(I was 'detailed' to 'guard' the ammo point once during a drill at Fort Dix during weapons qual. Being an artillery type by nature, I felt more comfortable with the most ammo and biggest punch available on hand to do the guarding with. being handed two 10 round mags and dumped off in the middle of west nosedrip by an itty bitty building did wonders for my confidence.)
*chuckle*

[Happy2BMe]

Well that is some cool stuff.

Has the Army arleady bought into the XM8 and how do you feel about the Germans getting the contract and not an American company?