WEAPONS OF THE WORLD: XM-8 Melts During Tests

StrategyPage.com ^ | April 14, 2004

[John Jorsett]

The U.S. Army has asked Congress for an extra $26 million to buy 7,000 XM-8 rifles next year. These weapons would be used to equip to infantry brigades and thus give the rifle a wide scale test. The money requested would also pay for the staff needed to monitor the testing. The rifle has already undergone thousands of hours of user testing and there have been some recommendations, all minor. The buttons on the sight are to be rearranged, to make the sight easier to use. There were also complaints about battery life for the sight, and a new battery is being obtained that will boost battery life from 200 to 400 hours. A more serious problem arose when the hand guard began to melt when several hundred rounds were fired in a few minutes. It was expected that the barrel would get very hot in these situations, but the heat resistant hand guard material was thought capable of dealing with that. So now a new hand guard will be needed, with more heat shielding. This will add some weight to the weapon, which is now 6.4 pounds. The designers are trying to get the weight down to 5.7 pounds. The issue of changing the caliber from 5.56mm to 6.8mm is still taking place in the background, with there not even being official recognition that there are 6.8mm version of the XM-8 being tested. There is a bit of competition among combat divisions to be the first to get the rifles for the 2005 test, with many officers lobbying to get one of their divisions brigades selected.

[archy]

Well, truthfully, whatever nick the thing gets will be bestowed upon it by the Soldiers who are issued it. I wish it had one man's name on it, a master designer or something, like Garand or Thompson or Browning.

However, whichever of you does post such a thread, I want a ping.

Here's someone else with a few thoughts about the new rifle, and who'll probably be among the first to get the word on what name the troops hang on it.

Unofficially, I understand the Marines are trying to come up with the funding for an all-Marine Corps buy for Fiscal Year 2005. I had a congressmen ask me what I thiought of the idea, though I hate giving advice about matters affecting the Marines.

Hackworth on the XM-8

[R. Scott]

We melted (produced a very noticeable droop) two M2 50 caliber barrels and an M60 barrel before we scrounged enough spares to be able to change them as often as required.
It ain’t nothing new.

[R. Scott]

Shouldn’t that thing have the barrel end painted bright red?

[R. Scott]

But I'm repeating what field reports confirm. Long range shooting at explicit targets rarely occurs.

Rarely occurs - true, but when it does it would be nice to able to reach out effectively. I never did like it when the “efficiency experts” came around with their stop watches and calculators telling us we didn’t need a piece of equipment because we did not use it enough to justify having it. When you need it you need it.

[1rudeboy]

In October, H&K broke ground for their new production facility outside Columbus, Georgia, comfy-close and convenient to the Ft Benning home of the US INfantry School and Headquarters. It's still a German design, but they're an American company now, in part, at least.

Talk about locating on top of your market.

[reg45]

Please don't tell me that uppers and other components can't be swapped in the field by the average front line grunt!?!?!

So much for An Army of One

[Robert A Cook PE]

It's a tough call:

Do you design for the 1 in 1000 (like Sgt York, mentioned above) who can truly use an exceptionally accurate, long range weapon, or for the 150 in 160 who "shoot and spray" at barely seen, short range, hurried targets hiding behind dirt, hurried foxholes or ambush sites, grass, doors, windows, and roadside debris?

I like the flexibility of different barrels, and I like the "designated shooters" concept of having different people in a fire unit get different versions of a common weapon firing common ammo.

[templar]

< Only the hand guard melts, and they already have a design solution underway.

Asbestos gloves?

[templar]

There also seems to have been a fair amount of long-range aimed fire in Afghanistan.

I recall reports of our guys being fired on from above at will because our rifles didn't have enough range to shoot back. A .223 falls short in combat at any appreciable distances, but it's a really great round close up if there are no hard obstructions in the way (out of a long barrel anyway).

[Lurker]

I kind of like "MasterBlaster" myself.

L

[R. Scott]

I do like the "designated shooters" concept - but I think every troop should be one.

[R. Scott]

Addendum:
When I was in basic (with the M14) we qualified with targets at 500 yards. It should still be that way. The heck with the bean counters.

[Long Cut]

I could easily see the Marines doing a buy on their own, and not waiting for the Army to go through its normally-snail's pace on such things.

I'd think that the Marines would choose the "Sharpshooter" version with the 20-inch barrel. They DID retain the M-16A4 with the full-length tube over the M-4, at least last I heard.

If the Marines bought the XM-8 on their own, wouldn't that sort of accelerate the Army's descision? Especially if the Marines chose the 6.8mm SPC version?

[archy]

The enemy is 500 yards away, armed with AK-47s. Would you rather 300 rounds of 223, or 200 of 6.8?.

Depends on if there's 200 or 300 of them. And how windy it is.

[dougiefresh]

We should start testing out nuclear missles again to ensure they will not melt before they lift off.

[archy]

Hey archy, just for giggles do you have a picture of the 7.92Kurz of the Mp44 in the same scale as 6.8 SPC? Also, can you put one of the air force blue stocks with the chromed metal on lawaway for me? I would be just the thing to shoot at the Wilson match in 2010. LOL!

I'll work on that. I've got some fired 6,8 brass now, so I'll make up a dummy round or two. I've not yet seen a pic of the 5,8 round with a 7,92x33 kurz round, and I think I'll add one of the 1950s 7x43mm *.280 calibre* EM-2 rifle rounds to the oic for comparison's sake. They're actually a .276, so are closer in size and performance to the new cartridge than it might seem.

from left to right: British experimental .280 (7x43mm) cartridge for EM-2; Soviet 7.62x39mm M43; US/NATO 5.56x45mm (.223 Rem); US/NATO 7.62x51mm (.308 Win)

Enfield EM-2 / Rifle, Automatic, caliber .280, Number 9 Mark 1, (Great Britain) circa 1952:

H&K XM-8, 6,8x43mm [Germany-U.S.A.] circa 2004:

[archy]

If the Marines bought the XM-8 on their own, wouldn't that sort of accelerate the Army's descision? Especially if the Marines chose the 6.8mm SPC version?

You miss the point. Expect them to purchase the *baseline version,* plus a large number of foreends with the XM320 grenade launcher to replace the 15,000 M203 grenade launcher/ M16A2-M4 combinations in Marine service, plus whichever barrel the Corps finds most suitable for those grenadiers, and the platoon's rifleman, platoon leader and platoon sergeant, and the squad or platoon's designated rifleman.

Purchasing the XM-8 with it's built-in optical sight unit will save the taxpayers having to buy more scopes for Marine M16A2s, then having to replace them again in a year or two. And the Corps can initially obtain 5,56mm XM-8s and then replace just the bolt, barrel and magazines with the upgraded 6,8caliber components as *maintenance items.* Expect the shorty XM-8s to replace Marine tank, VTR, SP artillery and LAV crews M4 carbines, too; around another 25K weapons.

H&K needs to field a backup iron sight as well thought-out as the rest of the rifle, and they should then be in good shape insofar as the USMC goes/

[archy]

Addendum:

When I was in basic (with the M14) we qualified with targets at 500 yards. It should still be that way. The heck with the bean counters.

Me too, in mid-1966, though you give your background away by calling it *basic* and not *Boot*. But I also continued repeat qualifications with the M16A1, to include on occasions when with 15-20 knot winds blowing, less than half the rounds fired at 200 meters failed to hit man-sized targets. I was one of 4 out of 200 who fired expert with the M16A1 on that occasion, but I had a LOT of experience doping wind at 600 yards at Camp Perry, or I'd never have guessed my hits onto the targets.

[Travis McGee]

"Spray and pray" may have been a suitable philosophy in old jungle wars, but in urban warfare where noncombataants are 90% of the population, and hostle TV cameras are filming your every shot and consequence.....

[archy]

The Navy would probably order them "haze grey, for under way", as I hear our working uniforms might soon be. (another story which I hope to post when the order comes down, stay tuned).

You heard about [or worse yet, seen] the new USAF blue tiger stripe fatigues? I have no idea what [if anything] the AF will do for a sleeve flag patch, but a subdued blue, blue and blue version is a possibility. I suspect this stuff was designed by some USAF officer who couldn't get flight status by virtue of being colour-blind.

Oh, sorry sir! I'd have saluted you, but I thought you were a plum tree....