Live 9/11 Commission Thread [testifying today Freeh, Reno, Ashcroft]

Chrissie looks like he'd been punched in the stomach!

Whew, hearing adjourned. Good, because I DO want to go to The Corner to see what they've been saying but didn't want to get more behind.

Need to do some stuff first around the house during "the break" between this and the president.

Ooh, do I want to keep the channel on CSPAN to see if the seminar callers are lined up? Maybe for a sec or two.

That was just brilliant.

They are terrified. He knocked their socks off in his opening statement. He basically told them: "Bring it on, you sumbitches, I got somethin for your ass."

They backed away like scared chickens.

So much for the "Hot Seat".

Report on Matthews please...I'm boycotting.

First caller: If this is a non-partisan commission, why are you dividing callers into democrats and Republicans? HAHAHA!

Don't count on it. The dems are going to do the same thing with this story that they did with the Kennedy/Judicial Committee malfeasance. They're going to attck the messenger.

Well, we were both wrong. He went after the August 6th thing.....he said he can't believe that Ashcroft didn't know that Bush had "asked for an August 6th memo." How could the AG not know that the president was asking for DETAILS about OBL.

Of course, Matthews doesn't "get it".......he won't accept the fact that it was BACKGROUND INFORMATION.

I just read Ashcroft's opening statement; I thought it was utterly devastating, but the mainstream media will probably either ignore it or somehow turn it against him. Damn, when he mentioned that the author of the 1995 regulations was a member of the commission - wow! No wonder the Dems hate him - he fights back.

What is FISA?

FISA = Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act

I think Freeh sucked the air out of that room with his op-ed yesterday. I think Gorelick would have asked questions and not recused herself had it not been for Freeh's publicly focusing on her.

Are they so stupid to think that people won't read the original?

Yes, the democrats count on the stupidity of the people and they make use of inneundo and implication. The sad truth is very few will read the original.

Corners of Chrissie's mouth fighting not to turn down--like yours when you were a child and trying not to cry! Precious!

Excuse me, but who wrote the memo he was talking about? I've been away a while and missed it.

Good question from a C-Span caller: Why do you have callers id themselves as Dem or Rep on this hearing today, making it political? Answer: We try to get many different voices. Caller had better point imo.

Ramesh was doing a little needless handwring over the possible backlash over the declassification of the Gorelick memo. I found it rather defeatist to be considering such things when the MOAB had just been dropped

From earlier testimony :

HEARING OF THE NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES CHAIRED BY: THOMAS KEAN WITNESSES: LAURIE MYLROIE, AUTHOR; JUDITH YAPHE, NATIONAL DEFENSE UNIVERSITY; MURHAF JOUEJATI, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY; MARK GASIOROWSKI, LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY 253 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. July 9, 2003

(snip)
MR. KEAN: Mr. Ben-Veniste, and then Commissioner Thompson.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to echo the comments of my fellow commissioners and friends, Tim Roemer and John Lehman, in commending our chair and vice chair for their delivery yesterday of our first interim report on the issue of compliance with our document and other requests made to the executive branch. I don't know that I would use the pugilistic analogy of Tim Roemer -- that's not my way, as many of you would know -- (laughter) -- I prefer John Lehman's analogy to the glass being half full. And I can assure those who are watching our activities that our staff has pretty much gulped down that glass and is thirsty for more.

You all should also know that the interim report was the product of a unanimous, bipartisan, and very collegial effort on the part of all members of this commission, analyzing what we have requested to date and what we have received. And I must say I am gratified in reading what the spokespersons from the executive have said as reported in the newspapers today, with respect to a pledge of cooperation. Particularly, I would hope that the procedures which the White House has put in place for our review of certain of the materials with which we have disagreed and which we view as necessarily impeding our ability to utilizing the information will be rethought and that we will have a constructive resolution of that issue.

The information that we are receiving and expect to receive in the very, very near future will allow us to be more informed than we may be at the present moment with respect to what our intelligence services have discovered with respect to matters which have been discussed here today during this panel. And so I'm hopeful that the words that the White House spokespeople have provided to the media will be matched by deeds, and that we will move quickly to assimilate that information.

Let me direct my questioning to Dr. Mylroie. You start your prepared remarks with the observation that the reasons that we went to war in Iraq were not as well understood as they might be. And I think many observers would agree with that statement. You go on, however, to suggest that a justification for our invasion of Iraq was the role of Iraqi intelligence operatives in actions directed against United States civilians.

Is it fair to say that your provocative theory that Iraqi intelligence, directed by Saddam Hussein presumably, had a hand in both the 1993 and September 11, 2001 attacks against the World Trade Center and our Pentagon is something which you have promoted over a period of time in your written work and in other appearances?

MS. MYLROIE: Yes, I --

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Is it also fair to say that the principle reason underpinning your conclusion that the Iraqis were behind these two terrorist attacks is that Ramzi Yousef was an intelligence agent of the Iraqi intelligence service?

MS. MYLROIE: That is among the reasons, yes.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: And you have also suggested that Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was also an Iraqi operative, is that correct?

MS. MYLROIE: I believe he is, yes.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Now, clearly, in the various organs for publicizing this theory on television and in books and articles, you have made your theory known to officials of the U.S. government at various levels, is that correct?

MS. MYLROIE: Yes.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: And of course in the very short time which is allotted here today, and on the basis only of what's in the public record and what we've been able to read and look at on the basis of your published statements and your presentation in written and oral form today, it would be impossible to go through these details and form a penetrating examination of your hypothesis. But I want to make a couple of observations. It's fair to say at the least that your theory has not been accepted by other scholars in your field, such as Dr. Yaphe, is that correct?

MS. MYLROIE: I'd say that. I think, and I have a book forthcoming on this dealing with the scholars in my field that even if one looked only at the question of Iraq's weapons as it became known after Hussein Kemal defected, and particularly the biological weapons, that 95 percent of the scholars in my field behaved in a way that one cannot support. And I pushed one of them very hard -- it was November '98.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: So your answer is that it is correct that scholars, at least 95 percent of them, have not supported your hypothesis?

MS. MYLROIE: In my forthcoming book, "Bush Versus the Beltway," I deal with the scholars. I don't think their opinions --

MR. BEN-VENISTE: You don't have that copy to hold up right now?

MS. MYLROIE: No, it will be out the end of the month. I don't think that constitutes any significant criticism whatsoever, given how they dealt with this.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: And you attribute a CIA motive by the intelligence community for rejecting your theories of Iraqi sponsorship for these two horrific attacks on the United States and its civilian population to CIA and other intelligence agencies, justifying their prior mistakes. Is that fair to say?

MS. MYLROIE: Say when they concluded that there was no state sponsorship, they did not have the evidence from the FBI investigation, because of grand jury secrecy laws prevailing then. And they had no basis for making that claim.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Now, is it fair to suggest that the current administration would not be reluctant to embrace your theory as a further justification for the invasion of Iraq, if evidence obtained since 9/11 -- debriefings of captured al Qaeda members, et cetera, which we will have access to, and have already begun receiving access to -- supported the notion of Iraqi sponsorship for either attack --

MS. MYLROIE: Senior --

MR. BEN-VENISTE: -- '93 or 2001?

MS. MYLROIE: A senior administration official told me in specific that the question of the identities of the terrorist masterminds could not be pursued because of bureaucratic obstructionism.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: And who was that?

MS. MYLROIE: I wouldn't want to mention the person's name publicly, but a senior and well informed person. I have been working with him on the question of Khalid Sheik Mohammed. He said, "We're sorry, we just can't do it because of the bureaucratic obstructionism regarding the question of Ramzi Yousef's identity." So I went ahead and put it in the public record.

(* Note that ben-Veniste uses as his ammo the 'journalist' Walter Pincus, who was one of the promoters of the bogus ambassador Wilson stories. Pincus' wife also currently works in intelligence area and would have a conflict of interest in this : )

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Now, the public record -- and I'll make reference to a June 22nd, 2003, newspaper article published by the Washington Post under the byline of Walter Pincus, who is one of the most respected journalists analyzing the intelligence community in our country, reported that there was significant doubt cast on this very al Qaeda-Iraqi connection. It references a National Intelligence Estimate from the fall of 2002 -- still classified, but this is a report which now is in the press. And of course the National Intelligence Estimate reflects the combined consensus of the U.S. intelligence community. And that report suggested that the National Intelligence Estimate concluded that while there had been some contact in the early '90s -- I think something which Dr. Yaphe has also concluded -- while Osama bin Laden was living in Sudan, those early contacts had not led to any known continuing high-level relationship between Iraqi intelligence and al Qaeda. And, as I say, we are in the process of obtaining information from debriefings and other sources which could conceivably throw more light on it. But your reluctance to mention even the name of someone who we could ask about this doesn't help us terribly much.

MS. MYLROIE: I can ask that person if he will give me permission to do so.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Okay, well we would appreciate it.

Now, your suggestion that Khalid Sheik Mohammed was an Iraqi intelligence operative would seem to be something which we would be in a position -- we as a government -- would be in a position to investigate very carefully, since he is no longer in circulation, and reports are that he has been interrogated and is providing information. So are you aware of any information based on the interrogation of Khalid Sheik Mohammed to suggest that he has acknowledged some Iraqi hand in his terrorist activities?

MS. MYLROIE: I can only cite to you what the friend, retired from Israeli intelligence, number two position, a lot of experience, said, "It's obviously that these are not legends."

MS. YAPHE: That is not evidence.

MS. MYLROIE: Evidence is something that --

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Let's not -- I think you've answered my question that in fact to your knowledge -- I am not suggesting it doesn't exist somewhere, or might not somehow develop. But to this point with respect to the significant information that has been provided already by Sheik Mohammed, there is no corroboration for your theory. And presumably that would be something that would be of interest for the administration to put forward, given the other events that occupy the front page of the newspaper on a daily basis. In fact, today's Washington Post, as Dr. Yaphe has pointed out, suggests that we are able to investigate still another of the early allegations relating to Iraqi intelligence and a potential al Qaeda connection, and that is the arrest in Iraq of a high-level Iraqi intelligence operative named Ahmed Khalid Ibraham Samir al-Ani (ph) -- is that correct, Dr. Yaphe?

MS. YAPHE: Yes.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: This is a man who supposedly met with 9/11 terrorists and murderer Mohammad Atta, supposedly in Prague, in the spring of 1991.

MS. YAPHE: Two thousand and one.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Two thousand and one, I'm sorry, 2001, just months before the 9/11 disaster. This is a report that was first sponsored by Czech officials, and subsequently they have pulled back substantially from their original suggestion that this Iraqi intelligence operative met with an individual who they identified initially as Mohammad Atta. Again, do you subscribe to the notion that in fact Mohammad Atta met with Mr. al-Ani (ph) in Prague in the spring of 2001? (* My freepnote: Veniste's comment is false- the Czech officials themselves deny the newspaper report that claimed they 'backed away' and denied they even spoke with the reporter as claimed)

MS. MYLROIE: I think it's an open question. I don't have the information that allows me to make a clear judgment one way or another.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: So presumably on an ongoing basis, with our interactive relationship now with the FBI and the intelligence community, we will be able certainly by the time we are able to give our report, throw significant light on that issue, if it hasn't already been made public before.

There are a number of questions I would ask with respect to the hypothesis that you have put forward which basically it seems to me relies on the notion that the passports utilized by Yousef, principally his passport was somehow doctored up during the period of time that Kuwait was occupied or controlled by Iraqi intelligence operatives. But let me ask you whether you have any evidence or even a suggestion that there are other examples of the use of Iraqi documents for use in terrorism that originated from this brief period of time that Iraq was or Iraqi intelligence controlled certain aspects of the Kuwaiti infrastructure.

MS. MYLROIE: There was a document found in Iraq recently in which the palace, Saddam Hussein's office, sends out a memo to all the Iraqi intelligence offices -- this is April 2002 -- saying that they are to prepare the documents that they have that were taken from Kuwait archives -- they are to remove any notes that they have made in the margin, but prepared these documents because Iraq will return them in October -- except those documents that were used for intelligence purposes. So that does establish that Iraq went carefully through the Kuwaiti archives, and there were at least some documents that were used for intelligence purposes.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: But is there any suggestion, Dr. Mylroie, that aside from the one example you have focused on, any other documents from that period of time carried by, utilized by, or any way used by terrorists which we have come into contact with and have been able to interrogate?

MS. MYLROIE: Well, Ramzi Yousef came into the United States on an Iraqi passport which to all appearances his travels begin in Baghdad.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: But that's the same example that you've used before, and my question --

MS. MYLROIE: No, I referred to the Pakistani passport on which he fled. This is a different passport. You can talk about Abdul Rahman Yasin, who came from Baghdad before the Trade Center bombing, returned to Baghdad afterwards, stopping in Amman at the Iraqi embassy there before going on to Baghdad, where he was for a decade. Lesley Stahl interviewed him last year there.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: These are the same individuals that you suggest are in the same operation, correct?

MS. MYLROIE: Yeah.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Okay. So my question goes to put that aside is there any other evidence of use of those documents during that period of time in which Iraqi intelligence controlled Kuwait to suggest that this was a pervasive use or misuse of those documents?

MS. MYLROIE: Only the people that I name in that chart, Ramzi Yousef, Abdul Hakim Murad, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Abdul Monum (ph) -- supposed to be --

MR. BEN-VENISTE: The same individuals that we're talking about --

MS. MYLROIE: And Ali, Abdel Aziz Ali. Yes, they are legends created by Iraqi intelligence while lit occupied Kuwait.

MR. BEN-VENISTE: Mr. Chairman, I simply don't want to monopolize all the time in running this to the ground, but you can understand we don't have the freedom to spend a lot of time in exploring in detail these allegations, but we will certainly look for any indication that would support the suggestion of an Iraqi sponsorship for either of the World Trade Center disasters as we go forward with our work. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

If you are boycotting MSNBC, then you missed Chris agreeing with Howard Fineman's assertion that Bush "isn't the brightest bulb in the bunch, and hasn't read all the books in the library."

They call this journalism. Another jerk who is jealous that Bush went to Yale and Harvard.