WE SHOULD HANG TOUGH: POLL (CNN/Time)

New York Post ^ | 4/12/04 | DEBORAH ORIN

[kattracks]

April 12, 2004 -- A new poll says the majority of Americans think the latest spike in Iraq violence means the United States should get tougher militarily - not retreat. The CNN-Time magazine poll also found that most Americans still believe the Iraq war was right, weren't surprised by the new attacks and are confident that the United States will regain control of areas of unrest like Fallujah.

[paulsy]

"Given all of the negative propaganda that we have been fed, for months"

The media are really hurting themselves with the propaganda and deceit. There's resistence to the media message, only the most partisian democrats really believe the lies; and even fewer people over time will believe the media, in fact might trend to believe just the opposite.

[cyncooper]

What a dumb question. Bush never said he believed Iraq had WMDs. He said (1) he knew for certain that Iraq had them and (2) that he had repeatedly proven that fact to other nations and yet they were willing to do nothing.

He did? He said *he* had proven that fact?

I think you mean he reminded the UN of what THEY had established.

[Adopted as Resolution 1441 at Security Council meeting 4644, 8 November 2002]

[cyncooper]

that he had repeatedly proven that fact to other nations and yet they were willing to do nothing.

As to your assertion that other nations were willing to do nothing, I recommend you look up some of Tony Blair's speeches. He certainly never wavered.

Hee is just one of many, known as the Coalition of the Willing. We well know who was unwilling, and we have suspicions as to why. See UN Oil for Food scam.

[McGavin999]

But the poll taken Thursday found sharp partisan splits on whether the Iraq war was justified and whether to get tougher - with independents generally siding with Republicans.

And this is why you can NOT have a democrat in the Whitehouse during tough times. The American people know it. Democrats could come out pretending to be war mongers and the people would see through them. Especially Kerry with his anti-war background. We KNOW we are in a fight for our lives.

[B-bone]

"But the poll taken Thursday found sharp partisan splits on whether the Iraq war was justified and whether to get tougher - with independents generally siding with Republicans.

Some 60 percent of independents and 78 percent of Republicans say U.S. military action in Iraq must intensify to quell the violence.

But Democrats tilted the opposite way - 48 percent said the United States is unlikely to achieve its goals in Iraq and should reduce its military efforts, while 45 percent (of Democrats) favor getting tough. "

Maybe I missed something, but I done see the split along party lines that this writer describes. The democrats are about evenly split with half agreeing with the republican majority opinion.

Unless only democratic opinion matters there is no split. . . Never mind, there's the answer.

[BiteMedems]

That must be one GOD awful smell!

[justshutupandtakeit]

RATmedia power is the ONLY thing holding al Kerry up. That is what the GOP needs to go after. Kerry is irrelevent we must go after his support system and show its irrefutable bias and deceit. Bush's most significant enemy is the RATmedia. Until its influence is reduced to that of the Weekly World News our nation is in danger.

This whole feeding frenzy about Clarke is a testimonial to its power to create a scandal out of NOTHING. Almost a month of bashing and headlines created ex nihilo. Sick.

[cyncooper]

What I meant to say was Bush claimed that other nations (France, Germany & Russia) refused to act, even though he had shown them proof that Saddam had NBC weapons.

President Bush claimed that?

When? Link to speech or comment, please.

[Coop]

Overall, a majority, including 79 percent of Republicans and 52 percent of independents, believe America was right to go to war with Iraq. Nonetheless, 55 percent of Democrats say it was wrong.

By the same token, 72 percent of Republicans and 56 percent of independents say overthrowing Saddam Hussein was enough justification for the Iraq war, but 55 percent of Democrats disagree and say it wasn't enough.

Also, 83 percent of Republicans and 61 percent of independents believe President Bush told the truth when he said he believed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. By contrast, 54 percent of Democrats think he was lying. Despite those partisan splits, 70 percent said they're somewhat or very confident the United States will regain control in Iraq, including 59 percent of Democrats.

There was little support for increasing the number of troops - only one in four favors that approach.

The poll also found 54 percent of Americans (including Democrats) want the United States to stick to its timetable of turning over power to Iraqis on June 30, as Bush has vowed, rather than delay the transfer, as Democrat presidential nominee John Kerry has urged.

President Bush is still in a strong position regarding the war in Iraq.

[Dilbert56]

The President correctly pointed out that the UNSC resolutions compelled Saddam to prove he had disarmed, not for the inspectors. No one, not even Hans Blix tried to maintain he had. That's the point the President made unequivocally and repeatedly. All his other comments were placed in perspective by listing their sources. Your characterization is wrong:

• The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax -- enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.
• The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin -- enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.
• Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them.
• U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents. Inspectors recently turned up 16 of them -- despite Iraq's recent declaration denying their existence. Saddam Hussein has not accounted for the remaining 29,984 of these prohibited munitions. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.
• From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors. Saddam Hussein has not disclosed these facilities. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

As for the aerial views Secretary Powell showed - they are factual. Here is a building with a truck designed to handle chemical spills. Here's the same building just before the inspectors arrived. The ground is scraped away by bulldozers. Those are facts and we all drew the same conclusion from them. That there was something in the soil the Iraqis did not want the inspectors to find. He showed drawings of mobile labs that defectors said were used for bio weapons. The labs were later found buried in the sand and they looked just like the depictions SecState had shown.

Well, we were wrong. At least so far

We were wrong with respect to stockpiled chemical weapons. They have not yet been found. With regard to bio weapons, rockets, and UAVs, the intelligence was more correct than not. David Kay, who is the author of "we were all wrong" also said terrorists and WMD posed an even greater threat than we had expected going in. He also said the invasion was absolutely necessary and the right thing.

[FlipWilson]

I would like to believe that, but the President's approval numbers and his head to head poll numbers with Kerry continue to sag. This in light of two factors: 1) Good economic news; and 2) Bush's campaign adds have raised Kerry's negatives to the mid to high 30% range. Iraq is clearly the reason for the President's sag.

[Dark Wing]

ping

[GraniteStateConservative]

The poll also found 54 percent of Americans (including Democrats) want the United States to stick to its timetable of turning over power to Iraqis on June 30, as Bush has vowed, rather than delay the transfer, as Democrat presidential nominee John Kerry has urged.

This is very positive. I haven't heard Bush make a point of this difference with Kerry. Has he hit Kerry on it in a sustained way?

[Barlowmaker]

No apology necessary, my point was that those two Iraqi women scientists, both expert in pernicious biological and chemical agent research, were there specifically to brief Saddam Hussein - in person - on the status of various development and deployment programs. The women weren't eye candy there to brighten up the sometimes mundane discussions of ethnic genocide, embezzlement and theft schemes and development of inhuman germ and chemical killers and the methods to use them. These women certainly weren't there to draw upon their womanly world view to help Saddam transition his management style from - a top-down, 30 year reign as the sole authoritarian ruler presiding over a campaign of ruthless totalitarian murder, torture, rape, ethnic genocide, repression, economic deprivation, regional subversion and warmongering, public theft, arbitrary betrayal, wielding cruel absolute power over his citizens paralyzed by terror, fear and hopelessness - to a more "collaborative" leadership model that encourages group feedback and welcomes constructive criticism and informal command. That experiment goes out the window the first time Saddam clarifies the chain of command by taking his gun and shooting a direct report between the eyes. So, they weren't there to feminize Saddam's management model either.

These women were cooking up a nasty culinary menu of lethal and deliverable germ and chemical weaponry. New mutations of anthrax, smallpox, influenza, botulism more easily delivered and widely lethal. There's no doubt Saddam was developing a nuclear capability, he knew Iran, North Korea, Pakistan, India, Russia, China and other inferior states had nuclear programs or capability. Perhaps he was funding development in Libya, that's why Khadaffi came clean after his arrest. Maybe Algeria, Georgia, Nigeria or Argentina .... but I'll guarantee he had an active program.

Whether we find WMDs or not is an after the fact irrelevance. Hussein gave us every signal that he possessed WMDs, and we faced a scenario that gave us no option to verify his capability without removing his regime from power. When a cop asks a suspect to take his hands out of his pocket, and the suspect continues to keep his hands out of sight, in a potential grasp of a hidden handgun poised for use ... the cop has no option, in that situation, but to assume the uncooperative suspect is armed and poses a lethal threat. If the guy moves his hand, he'll be shot, and whether he actually had the gun or not is not a mitigating factor in the decision to shoot. Same with Saddam. He wouldn't put his hands up, we couldn't afford to wait for him to use his weapons first just as the policemen couldn't afford to find out whether the perp was armed or not by seeing if he pulls out a cannon and opens fire.

Saddam arrogantly assumed the well organized outcry of the "world community" the active diplomatic sabotage of our interests by Security Council "allies" and the active opposition of Democrats in Congress and their media conspirators would create a political milieu that George W. Bush could not overcome. Bad bet, Tikriti.

[Coop]

I would like to believe that, but the President's approval numbers and his head to head poll numbers with Kerry continue to sag.

"Continue to sag?" Please. You're being a bit melodramatic. The head-to-head numbers go back and forth a bit depending on the latest news, but Bush is not sagging. Try looking at the electoral map if you want to feel better.