How Microsoft Is Clipping Longhorn

Business Week ^ | 4/19/2004 (issue date) | Jay Greene

[Vermonter]

Online Extra: How Microsoft Is Clipping Longhorn

To get the already-delayed follow-up to Windows XP out the door by 2006, it has decided to omit some of the most ambitious features

Never in its history has Microsoft (MSFT ) had to wait so long between Windows releases. When Windows XP launched in October, 2001, researcher Gartner Inc. expected the software giant to gin up a new version within two years. But Microsoft's ambitious follow-up to Windows XP, code-named Longhorn, has bogged down in delays. The company rarely discloses timelines for products, lest it miss its targets. But in copies of two e-mail messages obtained by BusinessWeek, Microsoft lays out a roadmap that shows Longhorn debuting in the first six months of 2006.

What's more, the e-mails disclose Microsoft's plans to cut some of the most far-reaching pieces of Longhorn in order to get the product shipped. For instance, Microsoft had planned to overhaul the file system, the way information is stored. The goal had been to change the way files relate to one another, so that users could quickly find documents, e-mail, and photos that have some connection to one another. It would be easy, for example, to locate not just digital photos, but e-mail from people in them. It's an enormous undertaking.

[stylin_geek]

Hmm, I'm surprised you're having trouble. Are you controlling permissions at the desktop or at the server?

Here, I use groups, put new users into a defined group, and let the server control the desktop permissions.

[Richard Kimball]

But it is overpriced and irrelevant.

Ah, the lowing herd comes to bleat, "four legs good, two legs bad" without even acknowledging the fact that once again, Apple has pioneered, Microsoft has ripped off. If you come up with a coherent thought, I'll be around. You can also try these handy-dandy no thought process arguments: "Apples are only used by homos", "If you can't edit your registry, you shouldn't even be allowed on a computer", and "I can buy the parts online and put together a computer in three days for $150." Oh, and be sure to mention that Windows machines get all the viruses because Macs aren't any good.

[Drango]

Here, I use groups, put new users into a defined group, and let the server control the desktop permissions

well my server controls the desktop permissions but I may have everything locked down too tight. Remember this is a multiple user environment! Currently for example, one user who finds a great web site, can't save the favorites for another user. As a result I'm getting help request for minor trivia like setting a global permission to allow a web site like dictionary.com. I got to find a happy permission balance...

As to the printer problem, we solved it by gerryrigging the printers with 12 ft usb cables directly to the XP box AND using a command line instruction install rather than the normal printer install.

[TopQuark]

Look who is taling: it is clear from your post that you have never managed a decent-sized software-development project.

Calling generals stupid does not make you smart, soldier: to the contrary, it makes one suspect that you will neve be a general even when you grow up.

[TopQuark]

If they want my business in the future, Or else...what?

[stylin_geek]

Ughh. Windows 98 in a production environment. All of our stuff is either Win 2K or XP on a 2K domain. We run a few local printers, but sharing them is not an issue, because we have a lot of network printers set up.

As for you having things locked down to tight, consider yourself lucky, because I don't have that luxury here. People here are allowed to pretty much rampage through the domain at will. We have a some security in place, but nothing major.

In fact, the only two things that saves us is our firewall, which also does web site filtering, along with our automatic virus updates.

I know we are living on borrowed time, and at some point, something drastic will happen, and take our entire network down hard.

[upchuck]

I'll bash MSFT as quickly as the next guy. If for no other reason than they're MSFT, they're arrogant, they write VERY sloppy, bloated code and security always seems to be an afterthought.

Having said that, I freely admit I've been a MSFT user since DOS V3.x. And I'll further admit that XP is the most stable OS they've produced, bar none. But stability does not equal quality. They've got a long way to go.

[zeugma]

Nahhhh we're using XP Pro. As far as I know there is no way to hook HOME up to our 2000 servers...I've take care of 260 desktops all of which are '98 except the last 20 are XP's. I can't even get the XP's to print to the 98. I need a vacation...

But.........Isn't windoze supposed to be easy to use?

100% microsoft free ... no worries!

[SauronOfMordor]

Not just software, but new computers as well. The Microsoft OS gets so bloated with each new release that you can't even run it on a computer more than 5 years old.

Intel and MS are in bed together. MS bloatware helps Intel sell new boxes

[Phsstpok]

They'd better hurry up! All those XP and 2000 versions of the operating system software are wearing out with use and pretty soon won't be able to run. Why, computers need a brand new model of the OS every year or so!

You think you're being funny, but it's truly frightening if you realize that this really is the case... at least with Microsoft.

Windows is a house of cards. Everyone must accept that up front. It is fragile and making any changes to it cuts down on it's reliability. Adding applications software to it cuts down on its stability.

How many REQUIRED patches have been released for Windows XP since it was introduced? For every one you apply you add a delta away from stability and supportbility. How many patches and updates have there been to the applications on a typical system? Every one of them moves that application and the system away from a stable state.

I apply all critical security patches from Microsoft to my OS and applications. I do this because everyone soon knows about the flaws from newsgroups and news stories and exploits get pumped out by script kiddies and expert crackers alike. The odds are good that one PC won't be a problem. I'm responsible for 35,000 PCs worldwide. If just 1% of them get hit it costs us millions. I only update other applications if I run into a problem. I routinely reformat and reinstall my system from scratch about every 3 months (half the time that's because I've got new hardware).

Any Microsoft OS that is older than 2 years is well beyond the "use by" date. Any MS OS installation that's older than 6 months is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

[Bush2000]

Wow. I wonder where they came up with this idea? Who would have ever thought of doing something like this?

I dunno. Maybe you should consult Napster, Rhapsody, Walmart, or any of the dozens of online music stores... ;-p

[Bush2000]

once again, Apple has pioneered, Microsoft has ripped off.

Uh, Richard, let's not exaggerate, shall we? Apple didn't exactly invent the online music concept. Napster, anyone? Rhapsody?

[CyberCowboy777]

I have very few issues. I have about 220 W2K boxes, 5 XP and 40 or so NT4 in a "Site" part of a larger 2K Domain. The XP boxes have not had any trouble thus far.

I have a few smaller environments (10 or fewer workstations) mixed O/S (W2K, W98, XP) and solely XP and the only trouble I have had was when the client bought XP home instead of Pro.

Are you running a 20 workstation environment without a domain/Active Directory?

[Richard Kimball]

Hey, big guy. What's going on.

You've got a good point. I think there's a significant difference between what Apple and the others did. While Napster and some others got a lot of people downloading music, they were primarily stealing it. None of these created a viable economic or legal model.

Further, they have not come close to Apple's ease of use model. You can listen to the music through the download application (it also downloads the album cover), burn it to CD, or move it to your player, all in the same application. iTunes keeps track of my cc number, so I don't have to go through the "shopping cart" process. I just click and confirm (you can turn off the confirm). I didn't even know Walmart did music downloads, but they're proprietary format, and you have to use Windows Media Player 9.

None of these approaches Apple's interface and simplicity. It's obvious that MS is co-opting Apple's business model, and I'm not claiming Bill Gates is the devil because he did. It's a smart business move. But if you look at what they're planning, it's obvious they aren't modelling after Napster or Walmart.

BTW, thanks for an intelligent rebuttal.

[Drango]

Are you running a 20 workstation environment without a domain/Active Directory?

Nope...see post #19 & 23 for an overview...I must say that when I couldn't get the permissions to work I threatened to strip off XP off and put 98 on the new boxes. Either that or give everyone full admin rights just so they could print. Wait, I did that once, (out of sheer frustration) and they still couldn't print to the local printer on the 98 box....Arrrrrrrrrgh

And don't get me started on why just one of the new XP boxes munges my logon script for one user but not the local administrator or other users?! All twenty machines are nearly identical in hardware, desktop and logon script!!!!!!!!!

And, and, and ...sob... my Norton Ghost is too old to run on XP and we are too cheap to upgrade. (Yeah, at my salary, my time is cheaper than a Ghost license!) I need a vacation....

[Bush2000]

You've got a good point. I think there's a significant difference between what Apple and the others did. While Napster and some others got a lot of people downloading music, they were primarily stealing it. None of these created a viable economic or legal model.

Look at Walmart or Rhapsody or Napster now. All of 'em offer legal pay-for-play downloads. Apple's not exactly innovating in this space.

Further, they have not come close to Apple's ease of use model.

I have to confess that my daughter owns an iPod. Not a bad little device. But the iTunes interface is one of the biggest piles of crap that I've ever used. It's slow, klunky, counter-intuitive, and does not provide adequate feedback regarding synchronization. It's not a bad first effort -- but I've seen better software written by college kids.

[NorthWoody]

iTunes keeps track of my cc number, so I don't have to go through the "shopping cart" process. I just click and confirm (you can turn off the confirm). I didn't even know Walmart did music downloads, but they're proprietary format, and you have to use Windows Media Player 9.

I recently downloaded iTunes on my WindowsXP machine, after I got a couple free song codes from the Pepsi-iTunes song giveaway. I LOVE iTunes. It far outshines Windows Media Player, IMO, as far as controls, sorting songs, burning CD's, etc. The graphic equalizer is better also, and you can set each song to use it's own custom equalizer settings whenever you play it.

Just the very pleasant experience of using iTunes has caused me to seriously consider going Mac for my next computer. I like to order parts and build my own computer, though, since it's quite a bit cheaper than buying a ready-to-rock machine. Another downfall of Macs is gaming, which I sometimes do quite a bit, and many of the big-time games are just not Mac compatible.

[eno_]

I do software development, and everyone here has admin access to their desktop systems. I can't imagine living without it. I suppose some users are such morons they would not know the difference. But it would be incredibly frustrating - like asking the teacher permission to go pee.

I think it comes down to the fact that personal computers have never really been satisfactorily tamed for corporate IT use. IT apps should still run on terminals that are totally locked down. Sun had the right idea, but a chacteristically crappy Sun execution and lack of conviction in their own strategy.

[CyberCowboy777]

LOL! You do need a vacation.

Which version of ghost are you using? We had the same trouble with v 7.0 but found a work around - defrag the MFT table, then ghost.

[rivercat]

Ah, the lowing herd comes to bleat, "four legs good, two legs bad" without even acknowledging the fact that once again, Apple has pioneered, Microsoft has ripped off. If you come up with a coherent thought, I'll be around. You can also try these handy-dandy no thought process arguments: "Apples are only used by homos", "If you can't edit your registry, you shouldn't even be allowed on a computer", and "I can buy the parts online and put together a computer in three days for $150." Oh, and be sure to mention that Windows machines get all the viruses because Macs aren't any good.

Sheesh! What crawled up your backside and died? Talk about having a chip on your shoulder. This is the same type of response I get from my Vegan-Greenie-Socialist-House Music Musician-Bush Bashing brother, that lives in Berkeley, whenever I say anything remotely negative about his beloved Mac. Who's the one thats in the herd here?