[Havoc]

Why don't you buy an argument that has weight and in the mean time help your co-ethically challenged pal there dig up the data requested that from past History shows this theory works and, one better, without the baseline present which the theory sets up as a requirement. Cause the baseline requirement to make it work isn't present. The whole thing is a sham, from the baseline being absent to abuse of H1 and L1 visas to Congress being outright lied to about companies not being able to staff IT positions in the US so they have to outsource to find workers. The last one I still can't believe but it was done. And whenever some group has to consistently lie to get by with something, it isn't good or they wouldn't have to lie at every opportunity, decieve at every opportunity and mistate the facts and the record, much less use an unproven theory (for which the baseline requirements don't exist) as a scapegoat.
It's a house of cards.

[discostu]

We've got an argument that has weight the economy. For the majority of the time since NAFTA was passed the US economy has been chugging along at meterioric rates, unemployment has dropped lower than ever, the GDP is up, the DOW finally broke away from the 1000 mark it hovered at for decades.

We have a baseline: the entire history of the American economy before NAFTA. Things are better now. While Free Trade might not have made things better it sure didn't make things worse. Show me ONE vital economic statistic that's down since NAFTA went into place. Is our manufacturing sector producing less than before NAFTA? Do we have fewer people employed? Is the stock market lower? Is our GDP lower? Is manufacturing a lower percentage of our GDP? Are the manufacturing indexes lower?

The answer is no across the board. The only "bad" thing is that we have more trade imbalance, and yet inspite of all the panic this causes no one is able to point to concrete example of something bad that has ACTUALLY happened BECAUSE of this imbalance. They all make dire predictions, none of which have come true, then when confronted they call the opposition traitors and claim that all the statistics are lies.

Sorry but the statistics aren't lies. The economy is chugging along well and the protectionist are wrong. That's the TRUTH, no spin. And if you don't have an answer that isn't filled with LIES, insults and accusations then just don't reply because I've already read all your LIES, insults and accusations 100 times and they aren't interesting anymore.

[Toddsterpatriot]

GDP 1996 Dollars in Billions

DATE . VALUE

1987-01-01 6013.328

1987-04-01 6077.162

1987-07-01 6128.104

1987-10-01 6234.441

1988-01-01 6275.851

1988-04-01 6349.841

1988-07-01 6382.344

1988-10-01 6465.242

1989-01-01 6543.842

1989-04-01 6579.392

1989-07-01 6610.567

1989-10-01 6633.538

1990-01-01 6716.279

1990-04-01 6731.749

1990-07-01 6719.404

1990-10-01 6664.243

1991-01-01 6631.350

1991-04-01 6668.541

1991-07-01 6684.870

1991-10-01 6720.889

1992-01-01 6783.316

1992-04-01 6846.759

1992-07-01 6899.654

1992-10-01 6990.599

1993-01-01 6988.724

1993-04-01 7031.150

1993-07-01 7062.012

1993-10-01 7168.662

1994-01-01 7229.370

1994-04-01 7330.238

1994-07-01 7370.163

1994-10-01 7461.109

1995-01-01 7488.689

1995-04-01 7503.300

1995-07-01 7561.352

1995-10-01 7621.904

1996-01-01 7676.440

1996-04-01 7802.935

1996-07-01 7841.922

1996-10-01 7931.305

1997-01-01 8016.391

1997-04-01 8131.947

1997-07-01 8216.564

1997-10-01 8272.897

1998-01-01 8396.345

1998-04-01 8442.912

1998-07-01 8528.466

1998-10-01 8667.853

1999-01-01 8733.171

1999-04-01 8775.518

1999-07-01 8886.934

1999-10-01 9040.072

2000-01-01 9097.421

2000-04-01 9205.711

2000-07-01 9218.681

2000-10-01 9243.840

2001-01-01 9229.932

2001-04-01 9193.054

2001-07-01 9186.413

2001-10-01 9248.762

2002-01-01 9363.225

2002-04-01 9392.446

2002-07-01 9485.579

2002-10-01 9518.238

2003-01-01 9551.991

2003-04-01 9625.513

http://marketvector.com/data/index.htm

Civilian workforce in thousands

1987-01-01 110953

1988-01-01 114016

1989-01-01 116708

1990-01-01 119081

1991-01-01 117940

1992-01-01 117978

1993-01-01 119075

1994-01-01 121966

1995-01-01 124663

1996-01-01 125125

1997-01-01 128298

1998-01-01 130726

1999-01-01 133078

2000-01-01 136609

2001-01-01 137846

2002-01-01 135791

2002-02-01 136450

2002-03-01 136143

2002-04-01 136196

2002-05-01 136487

2002-06-01 136383

2002-07-01 136343

2002-08-01 136757

2002-09-01 137312

2002-10-01 136988

2002-11-01 136542

2002-12-01 136439

2003-01-01 137536

2003-02-01 137408

2003-03-01 137348

2003-04-01 137687

2003-05-01 137487

2003-06-01 137738

2003-07-01 137478

Now show me in this data where all the jobs were lost or where the economy declined after your buddy Clinton got NAFTA passed.

Come on Havoc, focus on the facts and resist the name calling and physical threats.