An Open letter to President Bush (End run vs. Outsourcing)

Me | Me

[Poohbah]

Do you think most means more than 50%?

Well, it did the last time I checked, at least.

And exactly what percentage is much?

An interesting question.

[Toddsterpatriot]

We already know the disastrous impact of this theory.

Yeah, GDP went from $7 trillion to $9.6 trillion.

Employment went from 119 million to 137 million.

Wow what a disaster!!!

Come on Havoc, just because fact is a 4 letter word doesn't mean you should never use one.

[bvw]

Whistling past the graveyard is one thing. Whistling while walking down the railroad trasks om a trestle over a steep ravine ... another thing entirely.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Wrong, down here in reality, most people will tell you they are making less money, have lower end jobs, many part time, with little or no benefits. The 90s are over, plain and simple. I wont argue with you, as I speak to many people every day, and a very small percentage of the middle class is actually doing better today, as opposed to just 5 or so years ago. This are pretty tough.

Throw in massive outsourcing, and continue to add millions of illegal aliens to the labor pool, and it's a recipe for disaster.

[discostu]

Bustling economies have always been a house of cards. It never has and never will take much to dump an economy in the toilet, showing that ours has weak spots that could take it down is nothing more than proving it is indeed an economy.

[Havoc]

Nice figure fudging. That's why we had to create 350,000 jobs last month just to show zero growth.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Employment went from 119 million to 137 million.

And where are they working? Walmarts? Look, if you think this economy is going gang buster fine. You obviously have a political agenda to uphold.

The reality is for those in the middle class, it sucks!

[discostu]

Sorry down here in reality everybody I know is making at least as much as they were, more of us are working full time and more have benefits.

Got any stats to back this up. Anecdotes don't cut it. I talk to many people everyday and they all say the people you talk to are whiners, but that's just anecdotal so I don't actually believe them.

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's why we had to create 350,000 jobs last month just to show zero growth.

Wait, we created 350,000 jobs last month??

I thought we only lost jobs under NAFTA.

Still waiting for your fact, Havoc.

[discostu]

350 thousand is .2% of 137 million. That would probably be why it showed zero growth, simple math. No figure fudging here, those are the REAL number that REALY prove that you don't know a damn thing about free trade, economics, math, or the English language. Your question has been answered repeated and you have been found wanting.

[Toddsterpatriot]

And where are they working? Walmarts? Look, if you think this economy is going gang buster fine. You obviously have a political agenda to uphold.

Last time I checked, WalMart employed 1 million, not 18 million people. Yeah, my political agenda is to stop protectionist idiots from harming the economy.

The reality is for those in the middle class, it sucks!

Sorry your life sucks. You should talk to Havoc, his sucks worse than yours.

[sarcasm]

Average real (inflation adjusted) wages are lower today than they were in 1972.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Sorry down here in reality everybody I know is making at least as much as they were, more of us are working full time and more have benefits. Got any stats to back this up.

Yeah, brutal reality, not Wall Street stats.

Go for it, keep shouting how great this economy is. Be my guest.

[Joe Hadenuf]

The reality is for those in the middle class, it sucks!

Sorry your life sucks.

More inaccurate statements. I didn't say my lifed sucked, I said the economy sucks for those in the middle class.

Your spin is making the earth's rotation speed up. Please stop.

[Toddsterpatriot]

I said the economy sucks for those in the middle class.

Wow, there's some hard data.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Wow, there's some hard data.

Mine are based on folks that I speak with daily, not some government stats. Back to the Wall Street Journal for you.

[Havoc]

You're arguing with people who have demonstrated there are no ethical bounds to what they say or do; but, they seem to appreciate fear - none of them would take me up on an offer to come say all the things that have been said by free traitors on this thread in front of a crowd of UAW workers...

[Toddsterpatriot]

How does that saying go?

Cry Havoc (how appropriate) and let loose the dogs of whine.

[bvw]

Hmmm. Not a bad response.

Except ... let's take on your implied benefits of "free trade" (it ain't that at all, you see, for our partners aren't "free", etc, etc.). I say, and the facts support, that a great, if not the greatest part of any "boom" -- housing, retail sales aspect you may pick out is due to credit exansion -- not wealth build-up!

You can certainly prime the pump with credit to get a frozen economy started, but we are LONG LONG past that time.

We have all the borrowed comforts of the ante-bellum South,a faux-wealth built on slavery. It ruining to both sides of a "free-trade", or may I say "slave-trade" to be more accurate.

It ruins us, by bringing on the lazy and "entitled-by-mere-existance" mindsets of unearned and temporary material prosperty. It ruins the slave, a slave's mentality takes generations to throw off.

We have had Liberty, the super-sport, high-powered, model. We are "free-trading" it in to swarmy, smiling dealers for some "internationalist" model that runs like some under-powered Yugo.

[Joe Hadenuf]

OK, OK, Ok...If it will make you feel better, NAFTA, GATT, outsourcing millions of our jobs and companies, while illegal aliens pour into our job market by the millions is a good thing. Yesssireey, this economy is exploding, literally on fire, gang busters!