James Lileks: Sept. 11 Might Have Been Different If ...

The Newhouse News Service ^ | April 7, 2004 | James Lileks

[atomicpossum]

Hindsight only has value as a lesson for the future, it isn't really even relevant to what has already happened.

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[vbmoneyspender]

if is the middle word in life.

[swilhelm73]

The undeniable truth is that had Clinton, and Clarke, done their jobs and responded to any of the proceeding AQ attacks, there would have been no 9/11.

[Badeye]

Nothing could have prevented 9/11 from taking place. Even if there was a "watch list" established, the hijackers could have just as easily taken control of the Fed Ex planes that fly every night, and done the same thing.

The only way it could have been prevented is if bin Laden and company had been killed outright, for the attacks initiated during the 1990's.

[Humvee]

If "ifs and "buts" were candy and nuts we'd all have a wonderful Christmas.

[beelzepug]

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

[Maceman]

If we had some eggs we could have ham and eggs if we had some ham.

[Deb]

Not even that could have done it. Nothing could have stopped a group of unremarkable men with no criminal backgrounds, no guns or knives, or supicious behavior, who were prepared to kill themselves from doing what they did.

We live in a free society, dominated by a powerful left-wing, civil rights-minded minority that seeks to prevent any defense of our country.

[LadyDoc]

bump

[Dajjal]

Lileks bump

[Badeye]

Yep. I think Rice demonstrated this very well this morning, much to the chagrin of Bene-vista, B Kerry and Jamie Gorelicks dismay.

For that alone, I'd give Doctor Rice a Freedom Medal!

[Badeye]

Deb,

Its no different than the day before the first Kamikaze attack was launched against us in WWII. Prior to that, we simply could not comprehend the notion, preferring Patton's view: "Your job is not to die gloriously for your country, but to make the other poor son of a bitch die for his!"

We couldn't have stopped it, because we couldn't envision it. Once again, we forgot the lessons of history.

Its getting more expensive, in real terms, each time we have to "relearn" those lessons from the past.

[muawiyah]

Actually, the United States pioneered the technique that came to be known as the "kamikazi attack". Although "ours" was strictly voluntary, the deal was to have a fighter or fighter/bomber go beyond it's range where return was possible. This would catch the enemy unawares.

I believe some of the first uses were in the Battle of Midway. A military historian can correct me on the first occurrence, but it's pretty well known that the Japanese were so impressed with the effectiveness of the method they adopted it as soon as possible.

[Badeye]

Thats the first I've ever heard of the US Military using suicide attacks. Perhaps you are confusing the Doolittle raid, which was launched with no hope of recovery (for the obvious reason) onboard the carrier used to launch the strike, or due to the fact it was questionable if the bombers could reach mainland China due to the early launch.

At Midway, we launched are bombers at "maximum range"....but it was hardly a "suicide mission". Most, if not all were "recovered" on board, with the exception of the Yorktown's planes, again, for the obvious reason (it was burning for the second time in the battle).

"Your duty isn't to die for your country. Its to make the other poor son of a bitch die for his" - General George Patton.

That quote pretty much sums up the US military's viewpoint on this topic.

[Poohbah]

Actually, the Midway attacks were unintentional kamikaze strikes: the TBD aircraft was obsolete and had no business attacking a Japanese carrier group, where A6Ms would be available in abundance.

[Hoplite]

Captain Fleming's Vindicator wound up on one of the back turrets of the Mikuma at the battle of Midway - but the Japanese didn't adopt Kamikaze tactics until later in the war.

The American Kamikaze Corps wasn't formed until much later, by the looks of it.

[muawiyah]

Thanks for that URL.

First time I ever heard of it was way back in a government class at Indiana University being taught by Dr. Joseph Sutton, formerly of the OAS (early 1960s stuff).

There he was in a large lecture hall with about 250 students, most from Indiana, and he was talking about how WWII with Japan got started and who first proved the utility of diving an airplane into a large ship at sea in order to sink or disable it.

For a number of reasons, guys from Indiana seemed to have been disproportionately sent to the Pacific war. Sutton's discussion was, of course, heresy! But it was remembered by at least some.

[muawiyah]

http://www.fordpinto.com/images/side-girls.jpg

Is that the American Kamikaze Corps?