ITAA's Job Dream

Computer World ^ | April 05, 2004 | Frank Hayes

[techie12]

Frank Hayes not only exposes the ITAA report's data as showing that we will lose IT jobs and gain such jobs as construction and transportation, also points out that just a couple of years ago the ITAA was urging all young people to pursue the IT field.

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[techie12]

Offshoring/H1-B Bump

[Euro-American Scum]

Here's a comforting bedtime story: Offshoring won't just save companies money. It will also create jobs. And reduce inflation. And grow the economy.

And increase your sex drive. And grow hair on your bald head. And guarantee a Red Sox - Cubs World Series. And . . .

What are these people smoking?

[techie12]

The question is, what are they giving the newspaper editors, politicians, and think tank experts to get them to go along with them all the time?

It could be something green to smoke. Or it could be something else green, but not to smoke.

[MNJohnnie]

Frank Hayes not only exposes the ITAA report's data as showing that we will lose IT jobs and gain such jobs as construction and transportation, also points out that just a couple of years ago the ITAA was urging all young people to pursue the IT field.

I wonder how many of these lost IT jobs are amoung all the hucksters who were everywhere in the late 1990s telling everyone how the Dot Com bubble was the wave of the future and everyone had to get their business up on the net or die. Or how about all the hucksters who were busy selling "Certification" as the road to a golden future to every downsized middle management type in the 1990s. Face it, IT way over sold their nitch and then the bubble burst. Don't go screaming "Outsourcing" when MARKETING HYPE is the real problem.

[az_jdhayworth_fan]

I remember the cry for the increase in the H1-B visa quota in 1998 and 1999 and had a hard time believing the true need even then. At the time, I was an electrical hardware engineer and hiring was great, but not THAT great...(so great as to be calling for many tens of thousands of immigrant engineers.)

However, the current engineering and IT outsourcing phenomenon was in part fueled by just that influx. They came to Silicon Valley (and many other places), mastered our applications and processes, and are now armed, with minimal support, (a descent workstation and a couple of licenses for good application software hosted wherever)do the work for about 5% of the requirements of our own professionals. And, don't subscribe to the idea that these people are just automatons, incapable of spinning up to the next generation of developments. It's just not true and having them hijack our technical momentum is not out of the question at all.

The reason that we should be upset about this, is that the shift here is not a result of "fat, lazy" American professionals, as some Indian engineer pointed out on one forum I had frequented recently. The point is that the playing field is ridiculously far from being a level one. A good engineer in India can live like a king on $10k per year, whereas someone with equal dedication here (60+ hour work week and lots of dedication) might expect $70 to $80k or even upwards of a 6 figure salary. This would probably give them a similar lifestyle to the person in India. So, the playing field is so UNlevel as to make it impossible to compete...even if we relaxed many of the goofy corporate taxes and regulations that we all complain about being so responsible for this "outflux".

Do we tell our kids to forget about the idea of going into math, science and engineering? After all, we have been struggling to get kids to make that choice when there WERE real rewards. The fact is, many other fields were and are more richly rewarded without quite as much hard work. And people do choose fields based at least in part on rewards.

So part of my question is about just that, ...education. How do we hawk math and science (toward a degree in engineering) to kids whose older siblings found out that with a licence, a workstation and an internet link, someone across the globe can easily force their wages down to hamburger flipping levels?

Not to be gloom and doom, but I am really searching for some answers and ideas. I really think Bush is the ONLY person for this country at this time, and I happen to be a huge Bush fan, but I honestly think that the potential impact of the "brain drain" in engineering, and its long-term national security implications, etc. are largely not currently understood by our current administration or even squarely on its radar screen.

Having said that, don't think for a minute that I believe Kerry's bunk about stopping the outsourcing!! Bush would be our only hope for eventually figuring out a way to curb the effects of this problem. But, that means he needs to see it as a problem. Just don't have a handle on this yet. By the way, I have really looked for a good treatment of this economic phenomenon in the bookstore and there is not much. Best articles are found right here on the internet. Wonder if there are some good books in the making right now, or some available of which I am not aware. Any help in understanding this better is appreciated.

[Lael]

So if you're a techie, you may be able to sleep a little easier. After all, you already know what you need to do in order to dodge the offshoring bullet: build up your business skills, increase your face time with users and generally become the kind of IT person whose job can't easily be shipped overseas.

And one more thing...get a MAC!!!

I've researched it...Mac work isn't "Offshored" to any significant extent.

On the other hand, Microsoft has just removed the Microsoft Corporate Logo from busses in India that it uses to transport IT Indians to and from its facilities over there.

Must be afraid that some activist tourists might Photo the presence of the extent of PC Offshoring!

[Lael]

Bush would be our only hope for eventually figuring out a way to curb the effects of this problem. But, that means he needs to see it as a problem. Just don't have a handle on this yet. By the way, I have really looked for a good treatment of this economic phenomenon in the bookstore and there is not much. Best articles are found right here on the internet. Wonder if there are some good books in the making right now, or some available of which I am not aware. Any help in understanding this better is appreciated.

Bush doesn't have a clue because he uses an Apple [several, actually], and when I speak to Apple users I get that blank stare, like "What the H*LL are you Talking about???"

As for a book, the best [get it from Inter-library loan if it is out of print] is "The JUDAS ECONOMY" by William Wolman and Anne Colamosca, published in May, 1997...almost a full year before that G-D Awful Monica Distraction.

At the time, Offshoring was pretty much confined to Bangalore, but their analysis of who would be eventually affected was SPOT ON!!

And, you are right...Kerry is as much a part of the problem...but is attempting to cover his Borderless, Offshoring, Race to the Bottom votes with that 10 Million Jobs nonsense!

[az_jdhayworth_fan]

Interesting about Microsoft's effort to suppress their logos!! Just heard Craig Barrett's (my old boss who had a cube fairly close to mine) remarks of today about how outsourcing is not new and that the public has just discovered it because of the election cycle!!!

Your point is well taken that while it may not be new, it has spread in ways people didn't really anticipate. To lull the public into thinking that nothing has changed is to pacify them into thinking that their current and future jobs in biotech and molecular bio research, as well as even certain areas of (gasp - our last bastion of safety) patent law can go the same way. In short, any job that can be executed with a good command of the English language, good training, hard work and strong intellect, accompanied by an internet connection can eventually be outsourced.

Can't wait to check out the book you recommended. Thanks!

[KC_Conspirator]

ITAA is a fraud. Their reports read like PETA reports saying animal meat is bad for your diet or that animal testing kills more humans than it saves. I don't believe the sham PETA reports and don't believe the sham ITAA reports either.

[NewRomeTacitus]

In a sick way I'm thankful this has occured before I invested more time and effort. Me and legions like me helped pull American businesses' butts out of the Y2K problem and helped bring their technology up to par only to be rewarded in this manner. I'll pursue self-employment ideas based on other talents, but I really feel for the people who devoted their entire lives to the field and pinned their hopes of a decent retirement on it. This was the last nail in the coffin for the concept of corporate loyalty. Karma's going to be a mother.

[lainde]

bttt

[ETERNAL WARMING]

construction and transportation,

You can forget those jobs. American workers are rapidly being replaced by illegal, low wage immigrants in those fields. In the West, the overwhelming presence on construction sites is of Mexican laborers. And thanks to NAFTA, sooner or later the legal halting of trucks from Mexico will come to an end, making transportation their next conquest. American citizens need not apply.

[B4Ranch]

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[Landru]

"Frank Hayes not only exposes the ITAA report's data as showing that we will lose IT jobs and gain such jobs as construction and transportation, also points out that just a couple of years ago the ITAA was urging all young people to pursue the IT field."

I can recall the brainstems -- whoeverinthehell's issues these *calls* -- "urging" people to enter the teaching, engineering, law enforcement, medical, service, manufacturing et al ad infinitum ad nauseum fields for as long back as I can remember.

Seems there's been some kind of *soothsayer* industry created for those -- more "knowledgable than us, of course -- because somehow many of us were convinced we needed someone else to tell us what to do with our lives.

In the not too distant future I suspect the *new* call will be for the unthinkable, the trades.

I suggest something -- that altough not [entirely] new *is* completely innovative -- as a solution to all this baloney: find something [you] *love* doing, are good at, and then follow it as far as it'll go come hell or high water.

In short start thinking for yourself & for Heavens sake stop listening to the brainstem-soothsayers (mainly in acadamia) whose *advise* has more than just one hidden motive behind their "urgings."

Like their own well being & survival -- & surely not yours -- at the universities they'd *love* to retire out of at 55 with the many & varied juicy taxpayer subsidized perks that were 50 years in the making.

...for instance?

[international american]

If I were 18 again, I would get a real estate lic and start peddling homes..and go to community(cheap) college at night,all the while living at home. Then start buying and selling forclosures. By age 22 , I should have 200,000, and could cushion against any job loss in the future.

[international american]

I got a good laugh on that one:) In California the illegals do all the construction!!

[Lael]

Yes, Wolman's 'Judas Economy' is right up there on the AFLCIO recommended reading list.

Even the AFL-CIO, like a stopped clock, is occasionally right.

Wolman was the Chief Economist for Business Week Magazine, and Anne Colamosca was also a Business Week writer.

I guess, using your 'logic', Business Week is the Mouthpiece of the AFL-CIO!