FR Exclusive: Jeb answers questions about his support of drivers licenses for undocumented workers

Jeb's emails to FR poster, summer | April 6, 2004 | Jeb Bush

[summer]

Note to FR, from summer:

FYI -- I am posting here below: (1) an email I sent to Gov Bush today, (2) his email response to me, and (3) another email response he directed to me, and you, from his office.

As most people here know (because I wrote about it at length on FR), I previously had a long dialogue with Gov Bush about education, via email. And, at times, I have emailed him about issues of concern to people on FR.

Consequently, this is another exclusive for you.

summer

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Email #1, from me to Gov Bush, today:

-----Original Message-----

From: [summer]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 3:11 PM
To: Jeb Bush
Subject: FR person's fax to you

FR Person's fax to you

Gov Bush, I'm sending a copy of this to you, as suggested in the headline, so that if you want to respond online, to the people reading it, let me know and I will post it for you. [summer]

---------------

Email #2, from Gov Bush to me, in response to above:

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeb Bush
To: [summer]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: FR person's fax to you

[summer], I will get [my office] to respond to you.

Jeb

----------------------------------------

Email #3, directed by Gov Bush to me and you, from his office, to all here:

----- Original Message -----

From: [Gov Bush's office]
To: 'Jeb Bush'; [summer]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 7:25 PM
Subject: RE: FR person's fax to you

[summer] --

I hope the below Q&A is helpful. Please let me know if you need anything else.

Best,

[Gov Bush's office]

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Florida Safe Driving Act

[1] Why give driver licenses to undocumented aliens?

Florida has no power over immigration and naturalization issues, but it does have a duty to protect the safety of its citizens. Allowing Florida’s more than 400,000 illegal aliens to obtain a driver license under very strict conditions will increase safety on our roads and highways. It will boost compliance with Florida’s auto registration and insurance laws.

Also, a separate provision in the bill makes it easier for people with visas to renew their Florida driver licenses. Many individuals from outside the country visit Florida annually for an extended period of time. The new law allows them to renew their licenses every two years, rather than having it automatically expire every time they leave the country.

[2]Why wouldn’t the state just deport the aliens once they have verified their identity?

Under Federal law, no state has the power to deport anyone; it is exclusively the domain of the Federal government.

[3]What does the bill require?

This bill creates some of the highest verification standards in the country. It has more than 15 requirements for approval, and it requires the consulates to provide the applicant’s documentation to the state of Florida.

Aliens would be required to:

Ø show an identification card with digital image that has been produced with standards that would prevent counterfeiting;

Ø provide a second form of identification;

Ø submit fingerprints to the state; and

Ø agree to a criminal background check from their country of origin, the state of Florida and the United States.

The bill creates a mechanism for Florida to work with foreign consulates to approve a stringent means by which to verify the alien’s identity and ensure the consulate is not issuing a duplicate ID. Any consulate that cannot meet these verification standards will not be able to participate in the program.

Among the requirements consulates must show:

Ø documentation that the applicant has not been convicted, or is wanted of a crime equal to a felony in his home country;

Ø a certified copy of the applicant’s official driving record from home country;

Ø certification that the form of identification is legitimate;

Ø certification that the underlying documents used to issue identification are legitimate; and

Ø certification that the home country has security system in place to prevent multiple issuance of identification cards to the same individual.

[4] Who does this bill not apply to?

Aliens from countries on the U.S. State Department’s list of state sponsors of terrorism are prohibited from applying, as are those who are subject to an order of deportation. Felons cannot apply nor can aliens who cannot establish presence in the state for at least six months in the past five years.

[5] How does this differ from California law?

First, California law did not exclude applicants from the list of countries maintained by the U.S. Department of State as state sponsors of terrorism. In addition, California did not require state and national criminal background checks, nor did it provide procedures in conjunction with foreign consulates to verify identity and criminal backgrounds with an applicant’s home country.

[6] Where will the licenses be valid?

The licenses are valid in Florida only, for two years. They will have a distinct look from standard driver licenses.

[7]How will the bill be implemented?

Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles will be responsible for adopting stringent procedures and coordinating with the consulates to ensure verifications of identity and background history of aliens. Consulates will have to provide certifications of the processes they have in place to establish identity of their citizens who apply. If a consulate does not meet these standards, their citizens will be prohibited from applying.

[8]What are the benefits of issuing the licenses?

First and foremost, this bill promotes safety by requiring that aliens pass driving tests before they get on the road. It will also boost compliance with Florida’s auto registration and insurance laws. Increasing the number of insured drivers is an enormous benefit to all on the road. Currently, a licensed driver who gets into an auto accident with an unlicensed alien has no means to recover damages against the uninsured alien.

There are also law enforcement benefits; a database of licensed drivers helps law enforcement verify the identity of a driver who is pulled over. Unlicensed, undocumented aliens currently are not part of this database.

[Law]

If it was up to me, we could cure the problem with states and localities pandering to illegal aliens overnight. When the census is taken, every person counted would have to declare their legal status. Those who refuse to answer or who answer yes, but fail to produce a valid resident permit when asked would be considered illegal immigrants.

Their numbers would be doubled and subtracted from the reported population of the area. So when reapportionment, government funding and other goodies come around, areas with illegal immigrants would be penalized rather than rewarded. Big states like California, Illinois, New York, Texas and Flordia would probably lose congressional seats. Rural backwaters like Oklahoma, Mississippi and Indiana would probably gain seats.

Once illegal immigrant pandering ceases to be fashionable, so would illegal immigration.

Excellent ideas, all of them.

[JerseyHighlander]

Will the DL have restrictions on it's ability to be used for financial transactions as ID?

Also this "prove residency for 6 months of the last 5 years" stipulation. I want to say this is a said joke, a loophole so big a fleet of sub-par Mexican big rigs could drive through, but there's no other way to interpret it. Pay stubs, tax forms, utility bills, and other forms of residency verification, are the documents illegals regularly doctor. How can they possibly verify this? and how can the state maintain the privacy of the illegals, knowing full well that dozens (or hundreds) of illegals have been using the same address for residency verification?

Why would illegals submit to auto insurance? The majorit of any medical bills they incur from an accident would be covered by the state(taxpayers). Since the illegals will be placed in high risk auto insurance pools, the annual cost of insurance will be ridiculously high, probably near the cost of their own vehicle. Where is the upside for illegals to submit to auto insurance?

Can illegals own vehicles in the state, register vehicles with the state, get license plates for vehicles in the state, run commerical operations with an owned vehicle in the state?

Will auto insurance companies be forced to cover illegals with these DL's, what about fleet insurance co.'s that cover the illegals' bosses vehicles?

My overall opinion is this is an attempt at citizen and legal immigrant wage suppression in the transportation industry. No high school kid in the state will be able to find a pizza delivery job, there will no longer be a reason to have a legal immigrant or citizen on work crews, and whole groups of jobs will be illegal immigrant only wage scale soon after this comes into full effect.

This was a really informative post, thank you for sharing this correspondence.

[lonewacko_dot_com]

A couple more questions for Jeb:

- Why is it that you're able to concoct and implement a horribly complicated plan involving consulates of a foreign country, but you're unable to work with our own federal government to enforce our immigration laws?

- Have you and Arnold Schwarzenegger (or your respective staffs) been in communication regarding this issue? Will your verification plan be exported to California under the bill that Gil Cedillo and Arnold are supposedly working on?

[lonewacko_dot_com]

Uno mas pregunta: Why did you call them "undocumented," when the United States Code - also known as the law of the land - uses the phrase "illegal aliens?"

[PRND21]

Consulates will have to provide certifications of the processes they have in place to establish identity of their citizens who apply. If a consulate does not meet these standards, their citizens will be prohibited from applying.

Worth noting.
This is FAR more stringent than the Davis ploy.

[FITZ]

Here's my question for Jeb --- why not just accept their foreign drivers licenses? Here a Mexican can drive with their own valid Mexican drivers licenses --- even if an illegal is stopped and shows a Mexican drivers license and proof of insurance, they're fine as far as the roads. Just like I'm not handed a Mexican drivers license for crossing the border --- I can drive on their roads --- just like in Canada with my US state drivers license.

[FITZ]

By foreign governments that want as many of their citizens to go to the US as possible so they can send money back...

Exactly --- and by a foreign government that is about the most corrupt in the world.

[FITZ]

Why is it that you're able to concoct and implement a horribly complicated plan involving consulates of a foreign country

I wonder if the Jeb Bush's are still friends with Carlos Salinas de Gortari --- a much despised ex-president of Mexico. The one whose brother is in prison for killing the brother-in-law --- and they were all involved with drug cartels? You have to wonder about the connections and friendships.

[Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)]

Wetbacks and road safety are not related. One has nothing to do with the other. Period. Talk about spinning.

[JohnHuang2]

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

summer and I got off to a rocky start, years ago. But a troll she is not.

I agree that in some sense, having the state say that illegal immigrants are not their concern is a copout.

However, the documentation required in this plan sort of moots that. It would make an undocumented worker feel pretty queasy, providing that much documentation to the government.

could be a trojan horse by the government.

[Tailgunner Joe]

Under Federal law, no state has the power to deport anyone; it is exclusively the domain of the Federal government.

Well, that's pretty convenient.

I guess since deportation isn't even an option, then this plan is a sure sell!

Would it be too much to ask that you detain them long enough to turn them over to the feds who, of course, will enforce the law and deport them?

Additional questions for Governor Bush

1. Will criminal aliens be able to use these I.D.'s to purchase firearms?

2. Will criminal aliens be able to use these I.D.'s to board commercial aircrafts?

3. Will criminal aliens be able to use these I.D.'s to illegally cross over the U.S. border?

4. Will criminal aliens be able to use these I.D.'s to illegally register to vote?

[risk]

Well, that's pretty convenient.

bttt

[PJ-Comix]

On a related topic, my girlfriend is from Venezuela and is not yet a U.S. citizen but is allowed to take the test for X-Ray technician because of a shortage in that field. It is MUCH MORE complicated than the driver's license test. She has 11 years of experience as an X-Ray tech (Radiographer) in Venezuela but still has to take the test here. Because of limited English skills she failed to pass the Florida test twice but she is studying very hard and hopes to pass again in May. Third time is a charm. BTW, I've looked at some sample test questions and they are so technical even I have trouble understanding the English in it.

p.s. No Jeb Bushes were harmed in the making of this post.

[risk]

legal and appropriately paced immigration bump

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

Aliens would be required to:

1. show an identification card with digital image that has been produced with standards that would prevent counterfeiting;
2. provide a second form of identification;
3. submit fingerprints to the state; and
4. agree to a criminal background check from their country of origin, the state of Florida and the United States.

The bill creates a mechanism for Florida to work with foreign consulates to approve a stringent means by which to verify the alien’s identity and ensure the consulate is not issuing a duplicate ID. Any consulate that cannot meet these verification standards will not be able to participate in the program.

Among the requirements consulates must show:

1. documentation that the applicant has not been convicted, or is wanted of a crime equal to a felony in his home country;
2. a certified copy of the applicant’s official driving record from home country;
3. certification that the form of identification is legitimate;
4. certification that the underlying documents used to issue identification are legitimate; and
5. certification that the home country has security system in place to prevent multiple issuance of identification cards to the same individual.

IOW, the requirements of this bill are pretty much things which an illegal alien is afraid to do . . . which raises the issue of whether this bill will do anything about the problem it purports to address. It might, in the sense that it could strengthen the Catch - 22 in which the illegal alien illegal driver finds himself when confronted with a traffic cop.

As matters now stand, the answer to the charge of lack of driver's license is "of course I don't have one, I'm not able to get one even though I have to drive to get to work." This law, at least rhetorically, says that that is not true, even from the scofflaw perspective of the illegal alien which says that there are no jobs (as a Democrat would define the term) outside the US.

The proposal is that illegal immigrants be given a reason to be documented immigrants. That is Kafkaeque but then - is the current (non)system otherwise?

[Bikers4Bush]

There is never, ever a good reason to reward lawbreakers with the privledges that should always be reserved for legal resident aliens or American citizens ONLY.

Saying that Florida has no power to deport illegal aliens rings hollow from the man who could get help having them deported with one phone call to his brother.

In addition, I find his motives highly suspect considering his homelife.

[lodwick]

...and reload.

BLOAT

[brityank]

Hi Summer,

Maybe you can clear this point for me, as it runs counter to everything I know from the other five states I have lived in:

It will also boost compliance with Florida’s auto registration and insurance laws. Increasing the number of insured drivers is an enormous benefit to all on the road.

Just why is a license necessary to buy a car? I can buy any car I want, and unless I drive it on the roads do not need insurance or registration on it. My Mother in NY never had a driver's license, yet she owned cars, had insurance on them, and registered them.

Sorry; this is nothing more than PC pandering to the illegal alien lobby, and they need to be shut down and shut out of our government(s).

[lodwick]

Thanks for the information, but any government allowing illegal aliens, felons, to remain here are traitors: all the sugar-coated justifications in the world cannot change the fact that they are supporting, aiding, and abetting enemies of this country.

It is no longer about right v. left: it is about good v. evil.