FRESH CLUE SHOWS TURIN SHROUD MAY BE GENUINE BURIAL CLOTH OF CHRIST

The Mirror ^ | April 2, 2004 | David Edwards

[mtbopfuyn]

Ancient DNA specialist Thomas Loy agrees with [Al] Adler’s explanation for the seemingly too-red color of much of the ‘blood,’ himself having found 300,000 year-old blood with the same vivid red color.”

I know from personal experience some blood does not change color. Years ago a doctor (horrible filthy quack, but that's another story) gave me a shot. When he jabbed the needle in, blood spurted everywhere and some got on my sleeve. Mother and I both worked at trying to get the blood stain out but it remained. I didn't have many clothes around that time so had to continue to wear it for a few years so it was washed many times. I kept it for a while after it wasn't fit to wear anymore because it was so weird the blood spots had stayed a bright red. I've wondered if the color was due to some body chemical, perhaps too much or zero adrenaline???

[mtbopfuyn]

Immunological determination that the ‘blood’ is of primate origin

Monkey blood?

[VOA]

bump

[Havoc]

Ah yes, that old trick. My how I forgot it. If the description says "tuxedo" and we find a two piece bikini, we should accesp the bikini because it doesn't fit the description. How thoughtless and stupid of all of us. Tell ya what, since you're that gullible, I have this little car outside that looks very much like a pinto - don't let that fool you. It's really a Lamborghini Countache. I'll sell it to you for a cool mill.. how'd that be. Again, don't be put off by the fact that it looks nothing like a Ghini or any of the literature describing one. That's actually a really good sign it is one.

[Havoc]

This is the old fool 'em with appearances trick. It's the way we get people to believe that Teddy Kennedy is actually a Reaganomics fan who preaches reaganomics because he has a bit of Reagan's hair.. I mean, he has Reagan's hair, he must know something about Reagan...

[Stallone]

A 2D drawing cannot be made of sufficient quality to render a credible 3D image.

So the 3D point yields a low probability of forgery, particularly for an artist working centuries ago, let alone one working in the 'negative'.

The difference between that and the orthogonal projection point is that this image was NOT created by moulding a canvas over a 3D object, like a plaster cast.

It is a remarkable artist who can project the perpindicular image of a man onto a canvas in 3D.

The evidence to conclude that this shroud once covered a man who suffered crucifixion is overwhelming.

That this was a man who was crucified with a crown of thorns is rather coincidental.

That this was an image that was projected onto cloth in a manner that defies explanation is another piece of the puzzle.

Add in the iconographic information that shows the image of Christ in other paintings over the millennium that are derived from the image on the Shroud, one item I didn
t mention is that in the tradition of the day, coins found over the eyes are of the correct era (bearing the head of Pontius Pilate), and many, many other coincidences, and you've got some 'splaining to do, Lucy.

[pctech]

Until something uncontrovertable comes along, I will remain firmly on the side of those that say its the longest running hoax in history.

I won't even wait for uncontrovertable. It is and always has been a hoax. 'Nuff said!

[Graymatter]

Can you demonstrate that?

[RS]

Thanks for the pdf link - and interesting read considering it was written by a historian taking his facts from the writings of the researchers involved, not a scientist


I'm still going through it, but from the way it appears to be written they had an EXTREAMELY tough time finding a way to prove that it is blood.

Even the conclusion ( again this was not writen by a scientist ) states that it is only "highly likely" that the blood is not paint and is blood.

Since the researchers who actually worked on the blood had a tough time coming up with test to even prove it simply WAS blood, one has to wonder where the results of typing it to AB negative came from ?
... and as for supposed DNA testing, that appears to be even more out of the question, since I believe you need complete cells.

[pctech]

I know I'll get some major heat for this, but the whole reason it exists is to confuse the masses and try to legitimize the roman catholic system. It's just another example of "relics" the catholic church claims to have to prove they are a christian organization when in fact most of their precepts teach contrary to the Bible.

[nutmeg]

read later

[cyncooper]

Does anyone know if DNA tests are planned?

New Research Indicates Turin Shroud May Be From Holy Land

Excerpt:

Last year microbiologist Leoncio Garza-Valdes reported he had isolated the DNA of ancient bloodstains on the shroud, and identified the type as AB, consistent with a Jewish male.

~snip~

Other articles about this scientist quote him as explaining the DNA is very degraded so the testing results are limited.

[cyncooper]

but that the women do theirs after the sabbath. Wouldn't a clean cloth have been used after the body had been prepared?

But when the women went after the sabbath he was Risen. (No longer there to tend to. See?)

[Hammerhead]

(see the other intelligent answers to my question.) your initial (and this) responses are void of anything intellectually substantive to argue.

[cyncooper]

Apart from the fact that scripture says there was a seperate head wrap.. lol fraud.

Keep reading the thread. The separate head cloth has been in Spain for centuries and can be traced almost exactly on its route from the Holy Land.

Don't feel bad about not knowing about it. I hadn't heard of it until last year.

[cyncooper]

... and not a single one has done a DNA test yet ?

Yes it has. See my link a bit upthread.

[Future Snake Eater]

Love these "explanations"... not a quarter second, not 2 seconds, but 1/10 ( without explaining what type of energy ) ... and I thought it was a negative image, not an x-ray

Oh, I'm sorry, you must be the PhD physicist who conducted the experiment that determined the length of time it took. And you probably also already know that energy doesn't just "appear" from people, so no one really has any idea the type/source of energy. You also probably "know" that the "negative image" idea was totally debunked when they showed the images of the Shroud to various doctors and experienced criminologists who very quickly identified it as an x-ray image.

Don't bring your snide crap to me until you've done some research.

[cyncooper]

Not sure what the right term is for Joseph's relationship.

Joseph is called the Foster Father of Jesus.

[mtg]

You can't convince me there were dinosaurs either. All the proof we have are some bones.

[cyncooper]

Or I suppose Satan could have created it to deceive people into worrying about "graven images" ....

Since it's not a graven image, then the answer to your Satan hypothesis is no, he could not have created it. The idea that he would create something that would affirm the divinity of Christ? Preposterous.

Look up and contemplate the meaning of "graven image" and you'll realize the error of your line of thinking.