FRESH CLUE SHOWS TURIN SHROUD MAY BE GENUINE BURIAL CLOTH OF CHRIST

The Mirror ^ | April 2, 2004 | David Edwards

[shroudie]

When the Shroud was examined in 1978, the backside of the cloth was not accessible. At that time, the Shroud was sewn to a backing cloth. Now that the backing cloth has been removed, faint imaging of the face and hands have been discovered. This imaging echoes the images on the front. There is no image between the two superficial layers as would be the case if a liquid had soaked through.

When, in the production of ancient linen, the cloth is open-air dried, most of the evaporation concentration of residuals will take place at one surface if it is exposed to sunshine. The backside of the cloth will have a lesser carbohydrate layer.

The fact that there is some imaging on the backside of the cloth makes artistic and photographic methods significantly more implausible. It does, however, lend credence to the possibilities that gaseous amines released by the body reacted with the carbohydrate layers. Some gases would have penetrated through the weave of the cloth and reacted with the backside carbohydrate layer. For more details see http://shroudstory.com/faq-image-is-not.htm but first read http://shroudstory.com/faq-chemistry.htm for some background about the image chemistry.

Shroudie

[sheik yerbouty]

Was that in the Gospels, or another text of the time?

[FourtySeven]

Cool.

[Snowy]

How would one go about proving this?

I guess you may be right in that you can only prove relation, and not paternity. However, it still could prove sticky if those claiming to be His decendents are a DNA match for the shroud.

[mtbopfuyn]

Jesus had no descendents. He died celibate.

Read more carefully - I said "supposed" decendants. Surely, you've heard that claim. If DNA can be taken from either cloth try a match with those who claim to be Mary Magdaline and Jesus' decendants.

[RS]

"The reflex is the result of a complete severing of the nerve in question"

Amazing that both would have hit the exact spot to sever the correct nerve and that severing a nerve causes clenching - one would suppose then death would result in the same type of "clenching" that severing would, since the nerve no longer can carry impulses, and that the muscles causing the clenching would not relax in death.

[pgyanke]

Then why does the Bible give us the genealogy of Jesus as the son of Joseph?

It was important to show that Jesus came from the house of David. King David had been promised hundreds of years before that the messiah would come from his family. The lineage is the first historical evidence to show that Jesus is the fulfillment of prophecy.

BTW, the Bible also gives Mary's lineage.

[Snowy]

If DNA can be taken from either cloth try a match with those who claim to be Mary Magdaline and Jesus' decendants.

As I have said above, this will never be done. What if the DNA is a match?

[nina0113]

The technique of making concrete was known to the Romans, then "lost" for hundreds of years.

The technique was lost, but there was still plenty of actual concrete lying around. This is the one-and-only Shroud. There's more 1st-century linen around, but that's the only piece with an image. If whatever created the image were a natural phenomenon, surely it would have occurred more than once. If it were artificially created, science should have some inkling as to how.

I'm not completely convinced it's genuine, but I lean strongly that way.

[RS]

"But the real point is that this image was not visible in any detail until seen as a photographic negative. Thus, no one could have painted it since they couldn't see what they were doing."

Sure... IF they painted it yesterday... Perhaps it faded over the centuries, after being exposed to handling,water, fire, sunlight, incense, and whatever else ?

[mtbopfuyn]

Another problem with this approach... Jesus is blood relative to Mary and "adoptive" son to Joseph. Joseph was the blood relative to David. Jesus came from the family and lineage of David but, through the work of the Holy Spirit, He was born of a virgin.

Mary didn't just pop up out of nowhere, she was also of the House of David. It was tradition that she would marry within her tribe, Judah, which was part of the House of David. There's bound to be decedants of Judah that could be tested.

[the OlLine Rebel]

I'm not saying it's not compelling. I happen to think an awful lot of circumstantial evidence is as good as 1 solid piece of evidence.

But I still question the idea that only Jesus got some of these punishments. Out of how many millions killed? They can't tell me no1 else got at least some of those extra punishments. Also, I cannot reason why Romans - rather disinterested - would specifically mandate "extra special treatment" for this Jew, nor why they would listen much to Jewish counsel to do so beyond already putting him to death as their wish.

[RS]

"The image was created by a 1/10th second burst of intense energy, and it's a nearly perfect x-ray image."

Love these "explanations"... not a quarter second, not 2 seconds, but 1/10 ( without explaining what type of energy ) ... and I thought it was a negative image, not an x-ray

[mtbopfuyn]

I had never heard of the Shroud of Turin before that moment.

Oh, puleese!

[RightOnline]

True. Tom spoke of this. Now, combine that.......with the idiotic choice of material to test.........combined with the inherent weakness in carbon-14 dating methodologies (see link in my original replay; it is discussed in there a bit), and any hullabaloo about the so-called "carbon dating" of the Shroud should have been put to bed a LONG time ago. Of course, there are far too many who refuse to be distracted by little things like "science" or "facts".

[rwfromkansas]

The things found on the shroud also firmly date it around the time of Christ, as well as from the middle east.

[pgyanke]

They can't tell me no1 else got at least some of those extra punishments.

I'm sure some did. However, we have multiple historical accounts of a man who received all of these tortures. These are shown in the shroud.

Proof? No. Compelling? Absolutely.

BTW, the Romans weren't "disinterested" in punishing Jews. Don't forget that Jesus wasn't a condemned murderer or other criminal. Pilate himself had found no fault to condemn Him. As an observer of human nature, I can believe that could lead to higher scorn and ridicule than the man justly condemned.

[clyde260]

Very interesting, yes I intend to check the links.

I don't mean to be so skeptical

[Hollywoodghost]

G-d will not permit us to have enough evidence to "prove" it is the real death shrod of Christ. If he did so--we would lose "free will." We must chose by faith alone. This is why G-d will not show himself in a way that will prove he exists. He will always give us the choice to not believe. If the Shroud was proved for a fact to be an item proving the resurection--Free Will would vanish.

[RS]

"But the real point is that this image was not visible in any detail until seen as a photographic negative. Thus, no one could have painted it since they couldn't see what they were doing."

Another quick thought - could this originally have been used as a backing for another cloth that a positive image had been paintd on ?
Over the centuries chemicals and sunlight leached through the positive image to stain the backing material ?