Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

FRESH CLUE SHOWS TURIN SHROUD MAY BE GENUINE BURIAL CLOTH OF CHRIST
The Mirror ^ | April 2, 2004 | David Edwards

Posted on 04/05/2004 7:13:37 AM PDT by NYer

IT'S been called the longest-running hoax in history - an 800-year-old religious riddle that's taken in popes, scientists and believers from all faiths.

The Turin Shroud has been either worshipped as divine proof that Christ was resurrected from the grave or dismissed as a fraud created by medieval forgers.

But new evidence suggests the shroud might be genuine after all.

HAUNTING: The face on the shroud

As Mel Gibson's film The Passion Of The Christ rekindles interest in Jesus, stitching on the shroud which could have been created only during the messiah's lifetime has been uncovered.

At the same time, tests from 1988 that dated the shroud to between 1260 and 1390 have been thrown into doubt.

Swedish textiles expert Dr Mechthild Flury-Lemberg, who discovered the seam at the back of the cloth during a restoration project, says: "There have been attempts to date the shroud from looking at the age of the material, but the style of sewing is the biggest clue.

"It belongs firmly to a style seen in the first century AD or before."

Her findings are being hailed as the most significant since 1988, when scientists controversially carbon-dated the 14ft-long cloth to medieval times, more than 1,000 years after Jesus died.

Yet experts now say the team unwittingly used cloth that had been added during a 16th-century restoration and it could have been contaminated from handling.

Mark Guscin, of the British Society for the Turin Shroud, says: "The discovery of the stitching along with doubt about the carbon-dating all add to the mountain of evidence suggesting this was probably the shroud Jesus was buried in.

"Scientists have been happy to dismiss it as a fake, but they have never been able to answer the central question of how the image of that man got on to the cloth."

Barrie Schwortz, who in 1978 took part in the first scientific examination of the shroud, says: "I was a cynic before I saw it, but I am now convinced this is the cloth that wrapped Jesus of Nazareth after he was crucified."

THE history of the cloth - which bears the ghostly image of a bearded man - is steeped in mystery.

The first documented reference was in 1357, when it was displayed in a church in Lirey, France. The cloth astonished Christians as it showed a man wearing a crown of thorns and bearing wounds on his front, back and right-hand side.

He also had a wrist wound, which confused some pilgrims who thought Jesus was nailed to the cross through his hands. Scientists have since discovered the wrists were used as the hands could not support the body's weight.

Before it arrived in France, it is thought the shroud was known as the Edessa burial sheet, given to King Abgar V by one of Jesus's disciples.

For the next 1,200 years it was kept hidden in the Iraqi city, brought out only for religious festivals. In 944 it is thought to have turned up in Constantinople, Turkey, before being stolen by the French knight Geoffrey de Charny during the Fourth Crusades.

It soon became Europe's most-revered religious artefact, although it was scorched in a fire in 1532. In 1578 it was moved to Turin in northern Italy and was frequently paraded through the streets to huge crowds.

Yet while the shroud attracts hundreds of thousands of pilgrims when it goes on display, it was not photographed until 1898. The photographer, Secondo Pia, was amazed at the incredible depth and detail revealed on the negative.

There were even rumours that the shroud had healing qualities after the British philanthropist Leonard Cheshire took a disabled girl to see it in 1955. After being given permission to touch it, 10-year-old Josephine Woollam made a full recovery.

But it wasn't until 1978 that scientists were allowed to examine the shroud for the first time.

The Shroud of Turin Research Project spent 120 hours examining the cloth in minute detail but was unable to explain how the image had got there. Barrie Schwortz, the project's photographer, says: "We did absolutely every test there was to try to find out how that image had got there.

"We used X-rays, ultra-violet light, spectral imaging and photographed every inch of it in the most minute detail, but we still couldn't come up with any answers.

"We weren't a bunch of amateurs. We had scientists who had worked on the first atomic bomb and the space programme, yet we still couldn't say how the image got there. The only things we could say was what it isn't: that it isn't a photograph and it wasn't a painting.

"It's clear that there has been a direct contact between the shroud and a body, which explains certain features such as the blood, but science just doesn't have an answer of how the image of that body got on to it."

A SECOND study was carried out in 1988, when scientists cut a sliver from the edge of the shroud and subjected it to carbon-dating.

Carbon has a fixed rate of decay, which means that it is possible to accurately measure when the plant materials that formed the basis of the cloth were harvested.

The announcement that the shroud was a fake was made on October 13, 1988, at the British Museum. Scientists compared those who still thought the shroud was authentic to flat-earthers.

It led to the humiliating spectacle of the then Cardinal of Turin, Anastasio Alberto Ballestrero, admitting the garment was a hoax.

The Catholic Church also accepted the scientists' findings - an embarrassing admission given that Pope John Paul II had kissed the shroud eight years earlier.

But experts now say the carbon-dating results are wrong. Ian Wilson, co-author of The Turin Shroud: Unshrouding The Mystery, says they were flawed from the moment the sample was taken.

He says: "What I found quite incredible was that when they had all the scientists there and ready to go, an argument started about where the sample would come from.

"This went on for some considerable time before a very bad decision was made that the cutting would come from a corner that we know was used for holding up the shroud and which would have been more contaminated than anywhere else."

Marc Guscin, author of Burial Cloths Of Christ, believes the most compelling evidence for the shroud's authenticity comes from a small, blood-soaked cloth kept in a cathedral in Oviedo, northern Spain.

The Sudarium is believed to have been used to cover Jesus's head after he died and, unlike the shroud, its history has been traced back to the first century. It contains blood from the rare AB group found on the shroud.

Mark says: "Laboratory tests have shown that these two cloths were used on the same body.

"The fact that the Sudarium has been revered for so long suggests it must have held special significance for people. Everything points towards this cloth being used on the body of Jesus of Nazareth."

Yet despite the latest discoveries, there are still many sceptics.

Professor Stephen Mattingly, from the University of Texas, says the image could have been created by bacteria which flourish on the skin after death. "This is not a miracle," he says. "It's a physical object, so there has to be a scientific explanation. With the right conditions, it could happen to anyone. We could all make our own Turin Shroud."

Another theory, put forward by South African professor Nicholas Allen, is that the image was an early form of photography.

However fierce the controversy, the shroud is still a crowd-puller. When it last went on display in 2000, more than three million people saw it. Many more visitors are expected when it next goes on show in 2025.

Mark believes the argument will rage on. He says: "The debate will go on and on because nobody can prove one way or another if this was the shroud that covered the body of Jesus. There simply isn't a scientific test of 'Christness'.

"But there are lots of pointers to suggest it was."



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Philosophy; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: britishtabloid; medievalhoax; shroud; shroudofturin; sudariumofoviedo; turin; veronicaveil
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 81-100101-120121-140 ... 401-406 next last
To: old-ager
Another problem with this approach... Jesus is blood relative to Mary and "adoptive" son to Joseph. Joseph was the blood relative to David.

Jesus came from the family and lineage of David but, through the work of the Holy Spirit, He was born of a virgin.
101 posted on 04/05/2004 9:28:05 AM PDT by pgyanke ("The Son of God became a man to enable men to become sons of God" - C.S. Lewis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Former Fetus
I don't remember the name of the scientist who gave the talk, but I do remember that he introduced himself as an atheist who had joined the team in order to prove the shroud was a fake.

One of the most extensive investigations conducted on The Shroud, was done by an agnostic lawyer who set out to prove it was a fake. He is now a practicing christian. His book is by far one of the most interesting that I have ever read on this topic.


Mark Antonacci

The Resurrection of the Shroud

102 posted on 04/05/2004 9:29:09 AM PDT by NYer (The Maronite, works, builds, and plants as if he is celebrating the liturgy. - Father Michel HAYEK)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: mlmr
>> Judaism is passed through the mother's line.

Then why does the Bible give us the genealogy of Jesus as the son of Joseph? I've always wondered about that. Seems an odd thing to include.
103 posted on 04/05/2004 9:29:43 AM PDT by Graymatter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

To: Jaded
They all seem to work just fine. You pick.
104 posted on 04/05/2004 9:30:12 AM PDT by Frapster (Goofball extraordinaire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: the OlLine Rebel
If I remember, it works like this, regular carbon is carbon 12. carbon 14 is a slightly radioactive isotope, it's taken in, along with the carbon 12 by respiration (all living things).

When they stop respiration (dead) the ratio of carbon 12 to 14 tells you how long ago they stopped respiration.
105 posted on 04/05/2004 9:32:08 AM PDT by E.Allen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

too many people think that trying to find out if the shroud is real is the same as trying to say Jesus is a fairy tale.
106 posted on 04/05/2004 9:32:26 AM PDT by KneelBeforeZod (Deus Lo Volt!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: mtbopfuyn; Alberta's Child
It would be interesting to take DNA samples of the supposed decendents of Jesus in England and France

Jesus had no descendents. He died celibate.

107 posted on 04/05/2004 9:33:42 AM PDT by NYer (The Maronite, works, builds, and plants as if he is celebrating the liturgy. - Father Michel HAYEK)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: the OlLine Rebel
It's not just about what someone thinks they see. In-depth analysis of the shroud has shown it to be very much the genuine article. It is a burial shroud of a man who was terribly scourged and then crucified. The cloth has been found to have definitely been in Jerusalem right around Golgotha, as well as France, as well as Turkey. The image was created by a 1/10th second burst of intense energy, and it's a nearly perfect x-ray image.
108 posted on 04/05/2004 9:34:10 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater ("Oh boy, I can't wait to eat that monkey!"--Abe Simpson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: Jaded
An obvious reference to the sudarium and the shroud as seperate items. Excellent support.
109 posted on 04/05/2004 9:35:18 AM PDT by Khurkris (Ranger On...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: NYer; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...

Holy Face Monastery, Route 3 East, Clifton, NJ, 07013


110 posted on 04/05/2004 9:36:34 AM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: old-ager
Well, here's the thing. If Jesus was from the House of david, the lineage would be patrilineal, leading, ostensibly to Joseph. If, however, The Almighty was his Father, there would have to be some other way to sort this out..
111 posted on 04/05/2004 9:37:55 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: LadyPilgrim
You might be interested in reading the link at #64.
112 posted on 04/05/2004 9:38:00 AM PDT by cyncooper ("The 'War on Terror ' is not a figure of speech")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: Alberta's Child
but wasn't smart enough to make both sides of the image the same size???

"There are features of the image, and the proportions of the man on the Shroud, that are hard to equate with it being created by contact with a real body: The man is impossibly tall, being 6ft 8in (2.03m). This may be explained if, as some researchers believe, the image was made with a projected (photographic) image - which of course may be any height. The head is disproportionately small for the body, the face unnaturally narrow and the forehead foreshortened. The front and back images, in particular of the head, do not match up precisely, and the back image is around 2 inches (5cm) longer than the front." http://www.pharo.com/history/turin_shroud/articles/mhts_05_authenticity.asp

113 posted on 04/05/2004 9:38:39 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: mtbopfuyn
It's like Granny's muffins you remember from your childhood but she took the recipe to her grave and no one has been able to make them since

goose fat

114 posted on 04/05/2004 9:39:37 AM PDT by KneelBeforeZod (Deus Lo Volt!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: Preachin'
Sadly, many people trust more in the authenticity of the shroud, than in Christ Himself.

Why do you say that?

Examples please.

115 posted on 04/05/2004 9:40:37 AM PDT by cyncooper ("The 'War on Terror ' is not a figure of speech")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: labowski
Kewl! A group photo of Robert E. Lee and Jesus!
116 posted on 04/05/2004 9:43:33 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: mtbopfuyn
I believe I read that somewhere. However, the "Jesus" referred to in the account was another Jesus.

Jesus, more properly Yeshua was a common Jewish name at the time.
117 posted on 04/05/2004 9:45:37 AM PDT by ZULU (God Bless Senator Joe McCarthy!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: the OlLine Rebel
C-14 has a half life of 5730 years. So if you have living plant material, you can figure out how much C-14 it has taken up in its living tissues based on reference material like bristlecone pine samples and known atmospheric concentratins of C-14 (it is made continuously from cosmic ray bombardment of nitrogen).

Once the plant has died, no new carbon is being incorporated and what is C-14 is there, decays away without replenishment.

Let's assume that the original plant material (wood, linen, cotton) contains a milligram of C-14. After 5730 years, there is half a milligram (one half-life). After 11,460 years there is a quarter milligram, or half of what there was at 5730 years.

So how far back you can measure depends upon how sensitive your detection technique is. You have an estimate of how much there should be if it were new, and measure how much there is now (you count beta particle emission rates and spectra, or use sensitive GCMS) and also measure C-14 decay products.

If you are using uranium, you look at the U/Pb ratios and 238/235 ratios. Uranium has a half-life of about 4 billion years, so it is useful in ating rocks but not such ephemeral things as people or plants.

National Geographic had an article about radiocarbon dating a few years back that explains things much better than I can.
118 posted on 04/05/2004 9:49:42 AM PDT by DBrow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Jesus had no descendents. He died celibate.

Here's another rub. There are some that think Jesus was NOT celibate. DNA tests will never be done for this reason. You can say that he was celibate, but no one knows for sure. If by chance DNA proves that he wasn't, can you see the problems it would cause?

119 posted on 04/05/2004 9:51:19 AM PDT by Snowy (Microsoft: "You've got questions? We've got dancing paperclips.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | View Replies]

To: the OlLine Rebel
Consider the wounds depicted. Many were crucified by the Romans. Jesus, however, earned a unique torture.

Jesus bore the crown of thorns because He was mocked as "king of the Jews". No one else was.

He was scourged before His crucifixion... normally these were mutually exclusive punishments. One was corporal, the other capital.

He was pierced in His side to prove He was dead. Others had their legs broken. The robbers crucified with Him had their legs broken. Prophecy foretold that the Christ's limbs would not be broken.

Jesus's sufferings were unique to His circumstance. The wounds depicted on the shroud match those tortures. It may not be definitive proof (and I only point to evidence--not declare absolute faith in the relic) but it is compelling.

God be with you.
120 posted on 04/05/2004 9:51:20 AM PDT by pgyanke ("The Son of God became a man to enable men to become sons of God" - C.S. Lewis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 81-100101-120121-140 ... 401-406 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson