Kerrorist?
Posted on 03/29/2004 7:50:50 AM PST by TC Rider
Businesses wrestle with concealed weapon law
By Erika D. Smith
Beacon Journal staff writer
APRIL 8 is a high noon of sorts for Akron-area businesses.
That's the first day Ohioans can apply to carry a concealed weapon, although it will take another 45 days for anyone to get a license to pack heat legally.
In the meantime, business owners who want to keep guns out of their offices and shops should start thinking about posting signs. Under the state's new concealed carry law, that's the only way employers can prohibit them.
``Every client that I've spoken to has asked, `How do I keep guns off my property?' '' said Jackie Ford, an attorney with Vorys, Sater, Seymour and Pease LLP in Columbus. ``Have a policy in place and communicate that policy to your employees.''
Without a sign banning weapons at every entrance, the law allows anyone with a concealed-carry license to bring a gun into almost any type of workplace. That includes employees, managers, clients, cleaning crews, visitors -- anyone. And they don't have to tell you.
However, there are some places where Ohioans can't carry a gun, including religious buildings, airports, airplanes, bars, educational facilities and government-owned buildings.
``I find it funny that the legislature passed this bill and immediately exempted itself,'' said Ford, whose firm recently opened an office in Akron and operates in several of the 40-some states with concealed-carry laws.
Kids-Play Inc. in downtown Akron has always banned weapons on its premises for the safety of the children it cares for.
But three or four months ago, the company decided to put up a sign banning weapons ``just to remind people,'' said Executive Director Julie Rand.
``Probably with the law taking effect, we would have done it anyway,'' she said.
In fact, the law requires them to.
All places that are exempt from the concealed-carry law must put up signs with government-approved language.
In Akron, the nonprofit Downtown Akron Partnership is distributing free, 5-by-9-inch stickers with language OK'd by the city. Government-owned buildings will receive metal or plastic signs, although they are still being printed.
``Every city building and every entrance will have one,'' said Mark Williamson, a spokesman for the mayor's office. ``Metal signs would go up at Canal Park, for example.''
Businesses outside of downtown will have to eat the cost of buying no-gun signs. Williamson isn't even sure how much the postings will cost the city.
``We're printing up a couple hundred signs -- plastic signs like the Easter decorations you put on your house,'' he said. ``There won't be nearly as many metal signs.''
Unlike government buildings, though, regular businesses don't have to use specific language on their signs. At the very least, the signs must be conspicuous and inform people that firearms are prohibited. Some are just going with an anti-gun symbol.
Ohio legislators left it up to employers to decide, letting them choose the best way to reflect the tone of their business.
``The idea of putting up a sign of a gun with a big red slash through it isn't exactly appealing to some,'' Ford said.
No matter what type of sign you choose, the most important thing is to post them everywhere the public has access.
If a gun-carrying customer enters a store that has a sign on the front door, but not the back door, he could be charged with a misdemeanor. But he could just as easily beat the charge by arguing he didn't know about the ban because he came in through the back door, where a sign wasn't visible.
Using the same logic, Ford said businesses should put up signs outside, too. That way, an argument over late fees inside a video store won't end with a shootout in the parking lot.
Ohioans are allowed to keep guns in their cars on property where they're permitted. But any weapon must be holstered in plain view or locked in a glove compartment or transport box.
It's unclear how shopping centers will be affected, since the law says businesses have the right to ban guns, not owners. Often, the proprietor of a store is not the same as the owner of a shopping center.
``It's like anything else the first time you go through it. There's going to be hiccups,'' Williamson said.
With or without signs, though, employers have immunity from violent actions committed by someone who brings a concealed weapon onto their property. And shooting someone without justification is still a felony.
``What posting the sign gives you is: one, notifying employees and visitors that you don't want them to bring their guns onto the premises; and two, the opportunity for criminal penalties to be used to enforce that prohibition,'' Ford said. ``Without a sign there's no criminal liability.''
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Erika D. Smith can be reached at 330-996-3748 or at ersmith@thebeaconjournal.com
Erica,
With nearly 40 states having CCW permits, many for years now, I don' t suppose you can site one instance where a CCW holder has had a shootout with a video store manager in the parking lot? It's never happened.
I'll be happy to site cases where a CCW holder has prevented robbery, murder and mayhem in a video store if you like.
The silly signs you clamor for will serve to keep the CCW holders, those trained to use their weapons, who have passed numerous state and federal background checks, from patronizing their businesses.
Societies felons, ner-do-wells and malcontents, who would never qualify for a CCW will see the little signs, but when they read them, they'll see, "Gun Free Zone". I'm sure that will put a smile on their faces.
The "no-gun" signs popped up like daffodils when CCW was first passed here in NC, and like the daffodils, they soon vanished from sight, as good, honest citizens called and visited the businesses and explained that they were barring good citizens who had passed state and federal background checks.
And no, there haven't yet been any wild west road rage shootouts in NC.
Oh, and have you installed your "Gun Free Zone" in the yard in front of your house yet?
TC Rider Apex, NC
You now face the same question as Armed Hoosiers, Virginians, Floridians, Texans, etc. How do I respond to a business posting "No Guns"? May I offer a suggestion: Respond the same way you would to a business posting "No Irish Need Apply", or "Whites Only". Decline business with them. Inform the manager or owner as to why you are declining business with them. Bigotry can only flourish if left unconfronted. Confront bigotry.
They should amend those sighns to "legal gun free zone,criminals welcome"
Diamond Joe Quimby
I like the red outline of a handgun with a red circle and a red bar through the gun. It is simple and easily understood even by the dumbest or most drugged of evildoers.
That will allow the bandits to quickly and easily identify the choicest targets, those places where it is not likely that they will find armed opposition when they enter with their guns to rob or kerrorize the place.
I can see the first demonstration in Cleveland or Cincinnati when a brother attempting an armed robbery at a convenience store with a "No Guns" sign on the door is blasted by the armed store clerk. The deceased's mother and all the black thug community leaders will blame whitey for enticing her son into the store with an implied promise of no risk and then murdering him before he could, himself, take aim and fire.
Post armed guards and perform a full body cavity search of everyone who wants to enter. Otherwise, all you can do is ensure that only criminals will carry guns on your property.
Kerrorist?
It made me think of this.
Oh great, now potential kidnappers know they can waltz right in and grab a kiddie unopposed. Smart move, Kids-Play. Morons.
kAcknor Sez:
"bISovbejbe'DI' tImer" (When in doubt, surprise them.)
Have you checked the *bang_list today?
Get your daily dose of Newslinks!
The second, nearly as obvious, should inform violent, and/or psychotic gunmen that no one on the premises is capable of resisting them; the words "please don't hurt us" should be prominently featured on this sign.
The third sign isn't quite as obvious. This one is directed at employees and customers who hold CCW permits. It should read: "In the unlikely event that, because you have been disarmed by company policy, you are injured during a mass shooting by a violent, and/or psychotic gunman on this site, please don't sue us."
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