Two-Card Monti (re: Microsoft settlement)

Wall Street Journal ^ | March 25, 2004 | Editorial

[OESY]

Check this out: Yesterday Europe's antitrust czar, Mario Monti, ordered Microsoft to offer a version of its Windows operating system without the currently included Windows Media Player, which allows computers to play music, movies and the like. Oh, the commission also fined Microsoft $612 million for "bundling" Media Player into Windows. But that's not the weird part.

[snooker]

So you think it's OK for a software company to hide the APIs from a competitor that wants to make their software work with MS desktops? Any company who wants to share files with windows is just SOL, is that it?

So try this ... what if a car manufacturer wanted to make their tires/wheels proprietary and only allow say GM tires to work with GM cars? I think that if GM were to do this you would understand what an abusive monopoly is. There is a certain responsibility of market and fairness.

BTW, there is a bill in congress to force car manufacturers to disclose their APIs for the engine computers so independent mechanics and garages can diagnose and fix their cars. You against this as well?

If every company that had a dominant position in there market took your approach there would be no free market. Unbridled capitalism eventually fails and turns into a ugly creature.

[Paul C. Jesup]

Thought I like the old on cripple version of Winamp to play my music. The best video player I know of (and use) is BS Player (no jokes please).

It is free and works great with W2K Pro (the OS I use). Here is the link to download it: http://www.bsplayer.org/ (Note, you don't need to give you real or e-mail address to download it.)

[Paul C. Jesup]

Thought I like the old none crippled version of Winamp to play my music. The best video player I know of (and use) is BS Player (no jokes please).

It is free and works great with W2K Pro (the OS I use). Here is the link to download it: http://www.bsplayer.org/ (Note, you don't need to give you real or e-mail address to download it.)

[snooker]

What would think of only being able to buy spark plugs from ford since they refuse to allow others to use their patented design for the spark plug screw holes?

There is a bill going through congress for force car manufacturers to disclose the engines computers APIs so independent garages and mechanics can buy diagnostic tools and repair your car. You against that too?

Preventing someone from working with your product by not making interfaces available for others to use is a sure recipe for disaster.

We could even have different wall plugs for appliances depending on where you live. So when you move you get to buy new appliances that work with the new electric system.

Your reasoning leads to disaster for everyone.

[An.American.Expatriate]

We could even have different wall plugs for appliances depending on where you live. So when you move you get to buy new appliances that work with the new electric system.

Not a good analogy when discussing the EU, because this is EXACTLY the way it is!!

[snooker]

" Not a good analogy when discussing the EU, because this is EXACTLY the way it is!!"

Yes I know. Been there done that and it is a very expensive disaster. I wasn't referring to the EU as such but I thought tossing this in would make the point.

Every once in a great while everyone does something right, even the EU

[MrB]

Read "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell - it will help you get some perspective on "monopolies."

hint - monopolies cannot continue to exist without the force of government involved.

[AFreeBird]

One more thing I just thought of that probably puts it better perspective; Ford makes a car with a media player (radio/CD), but people are replacing those with aftermarket devices. Ford , for whatever reason, wants to dominate the media player device market, so they "integrate" their media player into the car. Lets say they do this by putting functions of the EMC (Engine Management Computer) into the radio's curcuitry. The End user cannot replace the radio without affecting the performance of, or ability of the car to operate.

That is probably closer to what really happened with their integration of IE into Windows, but the analogy applies none the less.

[steplock]

"MS not allowing others to have access to the networking APIs..."

Those are M$ API's - nobody else's. If you spent million$ of your dollars to create a product - I am positive you would not say - "Gee, I think I will just give it all away to the communists!"

[steplock]

"So you think it's OK for a software company to hide the APIs from a competitor that wants to make their software work with MS desktops? Any company who wants to share files with windows is just SOL, is that it?"

YOU GOT IT!

It is called Cpaitalism, Free-Market, The Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence.

We are NOT COMMUNISTS or SOCIALISTS.... yet!

[stylin_geek]

Yes, but you are also trying to claim that Microsoft should ensure the aftermarket part will work. No manufacturer will warranty a car that has been modified from factory original. As I said, no one is forcing you to buy a computer. If you don't like Windows, use something else, or don't even buy a computer.

[stylin_geek]

No, your reasoning leads to government intrusion in the free market. Again, if you don't like the way a car is built, and the fact that not just anyone can work on it, then don't buy it. No one forces you to buy a car.

By the way, did the government set what is currently the standard for networking? Or, were there several methods, and the free market decided to make CAT 5 fast ethernet the standard? Was this the disaster for everyone you have proclaimed?

How about Betamax vs VHS? Which one was the best? Should the government have decided? Who actually decided VHS would be the standard, even though Betamax was superior?

[cyborg]

I agree.

[cyborg]

Betamax folks dropped the ball.

[mikegi]

Their history is repleat with stolen code, broken business promises, privacy invasion, and security that you could drive a truck through.

What stolen code? Please provide a reference.

[AFreeBird]

Yes, but you are also trying to claim that Microsoft should ensure the aftermarket part will work. No manufacturer will warranty a car that has been modified from factory original.

Dude! You should read M$'s EULA. They don't warrant $#!t. And that's from the time you tear open the shrink wrap.

As for warranties, the aftermarket manufacturer is responsible for that which is theirs, and yes, for certain parts, the OEM will not warrant the vehicle for those changes (DURING THE VEHICLES WARRANTY PERIOD). Will Ford discount the vehicle warranty because you choose to use a different, after market media player? I don't think so. Unless of course they followed M$' business model and moved some EMC functions to the radio. Then they (Ford) could claim that.

In any event, tourque setting for fasteners, electrial values, spacial demension et al, are all well known and freely available (A cars API's) and after marketers can build to those specs with the reasonable expectaion that their part will fit and work accordingly.

[BushCountry]

The list goes on and on forever... The History of Microsoft is to enter co-operative agreements with companies, steal their technology and repackage it as their own. Most of the time they develop free versions of competitors products to drive them out of business and crush innovation. They are a pox on the development of computer technology (especially operating systems their main product).

Media player technology: The suit, filed by audio and video delivery software maker Burst.com Inc. yesterday, accuses Microsoft of illegally employing Burst's video delivery technologies after gaining access to the company's proprietary information during negotiations.

Mouse Technology: Goldtouch Technologies Inc., has filed a lawsuit against Microsoft Corp. [NASDAQ:MSFT] charging the giant developer with stealing the design of an ergonomic mouse peripheral. The firm has officially said it believes that Microsoft willfully stole trade secrets while engaging in patent infringement and fraud.

Compression Technology: A federal jury ordered Microsoft to pay $120 million in damages to Stac Electronics, ruling that the software giant had appropriated technology patented by its much-smaller rival.

Web Browsing Technology: Eolas® Technologies Incorporated, an Internet technology firm based in downtown Chicago, today announced that it has filed suit here in Federal court against Redmond, Washington-based Microsoft Corporation (NASDAQ: MSFT) for infringement of Eolas' patent on fundamental Web browser technology that makes "plug-ins" and "applets" possible.

Voice Technology: AT&T has filed a lawsuit against Microsoft accusing the software giant of selling products that include a patented digital speech technology developed by the telco.

Smartphone Technology: Mobile phone maker Sendo has filed a lawsuit against Microsoft, alleging that the software giant stole technical information and prorietary technology from it - a move which adds to the intrigue surrounding its recently-terminated relationship with Bill Gates' outfit.

GUI: Apple (yea, I know what you are going to say, but history says differently).

Plug and Play: IBM. This feature was available years before Microsoft introduce it.

As I said, the list of broken promises and stolen code goes on and on....

[snooker]

So you think it's fine for MS to refuse to allow others to license the protocols for inter-operation with their network? All the EU did was force MS to allow others to license for a fee their APIs and protocols so that other manufacturers could work with MS. It wasn't too long ago that you got all the APIs and a free license from MS in your MSDN subscription. It was on;y after MS decided they could use the APIs as a lockout that the problem began.

What if MS decided that the CAT-5 wire wasn't for them and they decided to make their own. Then you could only make networks work by buying MS wire and connectors from the MS wire and cable company. Then mice, then keyboards, then disk drives, then network chips, then ...... Same thing.

And consider this ... What if Intel used their monopoly to start the same chain of events. You had to use Intel chips to interface with the proprietary Intel CPU protocols. Oh wait, Intel started this with the failed Itanium.

Sometimes governments need to step in and prevent abusive monopolies from abusing their positions in the market. Finally the EU is stepping in and stopping some of the abuse. It's a start.

I am not a big government guy but sometimes there is a need for government action. Keeps the playing field level and the markets free and open.

One thing about Linux is it removes all the software barriers to competition. Since Linux runs on practically every viable CPU architecture, it zeros out Intel's attempt at doing to hardware what MS is doing to software.

[snooker]

We are NOT COMMUNISTS or SOCIALISTS.... yet!

When the argument is weak, when you can't win on the merit, you can always call names.

So forcing a company to license for a fee their external protocols so others can inter-opreate is what, socialism? Once upon a time IBM ran the same scam. Finally the government took them down.

Looks like the MS abusive monopoly is being knocked down. A good thing.

[unixfox]

It is a shakedown - pure and simple. Microsoft should pull (shrug) its business from Europe and offer no support for its products for a year....

When the Xlinton administration was going after Microsoft I thought they should quit selling to the federal government and stop all support as well.