Supreme Court won't hear appeal over judge in Davidian case

Fort Worth Star Telegram/AP ^ | 03/22/2004 | Anne Gearan

[jtminton]

WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court refused Monday to hear an appeal questioning the conduct of a federal judge involved in lawsuits over the FBI siege of the Branch Davidian complex near Waco.

The high court did not comment in rejecting a pair of appeals from survivors and from families of children who died in the fire that swept the complex in April 1993.

U.S. District Judge Walter Smith, the only federal judge sitting in Waco, refused to recuse himself despite what the Davidians called a demonstrated bias against them.

At one point the judge referred to part of the Davidians' case as "bullcrap," lawyers for surviving family members alleged. He also allegedly referred to a witness as a "crazy, murdering son of a bitch."

Smith dismissed most of the claims against the federal government in 1999, and dismissed the rest of the case following a trial in 2000 in which an advisory jury found the government was not negligent.

The cases are Thompson v. Chojnacki, 03-838 and Brown v. United States, 03-849.

[international american]

Too hot to handle, I guess

[ASTM366]

Judge Walter Smith will someday meet the "Judge of all Judges" and then he will pay for his abuse of the Davidians.

The BATF attacked a church on a Sunday morning at 9:30 (February 28, 1993), then the FBI subjected INNOCENT men, women and children to days of pychological warfare techniques and then attacked them again with military vehicles on April 19, 1993. The result - Death.

Even though they all of the INNOCENT men, women and children burned to death while surrounded by Federal agents, this "judge" ruled the Federal government completely innocent of any wrongdoing?

He's a fu*king idiot.

[international american]

They could have grabbed the guy in town anytime they wanted to. A sick piece of history!

[Poohbah]

They could have grabbed the guy in town anytime they wanted to. A sick piece of history!

Small problem: they didn't have an arrest warrant; they had a search warrant. A search warrant does not grant authority to arrest anybody.

[international american]

Poobah, I am not a legal expert. Can you tell me why they could not bring him in for questioning instead of "french frying" the whole lot?

[drypowder]

Hell, these supremes found that shackling the 1st in the CFR is constitutional. This denial of justice in the Waco massacre just adds credence to the FACT that the US is a Government; of the Government, by the Government and for the Government. Most unfortunately, the majority of people in the US continue to ignore it or refuse to believe it.

[Poohbah]

Poobah, I am not a legal expert. Can you tell me why they could not bring him in for questioning instead of "french frying" the whole lot?

The problem is that someone--identity uncertain, but probably a federal agent--started shooting when they attempted to serve the warrant.

However, in battle...it takes two sides to make a battle. Had the initial service been as described--ATF opening fire against a completely surprised bunch of Davidians--then the firefight would've been extremely short and extremely one-sided in favor of the ATF. It was a draw. That tells me that the Branch Davidians were (a) willing to fight (not necessarily a bad thing) and (b) quite ready to fight (which may not be a good thing).

If you're ready and willing to engage in a gun battle with the law--don't be too surprised if one happens.

And then don't be too surprised at the consequences.

[Poohbah]

As for why they couldn't bring him in for questioning: they didn't have an arrest warrant.

[international american]

You need an arrest warrant to bring someone in for questioning? Man I know nothing about the law:)

[Bryan24]

Results of a Federal SEARCH Warrant.

I would really hate to see what they would do if they DID have a Federal ARREST warrant.

[MeekOneGOP]

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/stories/061800/new_government.html

---

  U.S. District Judge Walter Smith who is presiding over the Branch Davidian trial, talks with newsmen outside the federal courthouse Feb.24,1994 in San Antonio,Texas. It was the second day of jury deliberation. The AP

[Poohbah]

Once they started shooting at the Feds, they had an arrest warrant against them. And the evidence indicates that the fires were started by the Davidians--and made worse by the Feds.

Of course, they could've just come out with their hands up at some point, but that's too obvious a solution for some folks.

[Poohbah]

You need an arrest warrant to bring someone in for questioning?

If they aren't willing to come down to the station voluntarily, yup.

If the cop is saying "you can't leave," it's an arrest. Period. End of story.

[Oztrich Boy]

Small problem: they didn't have an arrest warrant; they had a search warrant.

They had both.

JoJ Report to the Deputy Attorney General on the Events at Waco, Texas

On February 28, 1993, at approximately 9:30 a.m. Central Time, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) came under heavy gunfire while attempting to execute an arrest warrant for Vernon Howell, otherwise known as David Koresh. The warrant authorized Koresh's arrest for federal firearms and explosives violations. An accompanying search warrant authorized the ATF agents to search the compound where Koresh and his followers, known as the Branch Davidians, lived near Waco, Texas.

[Oztrich Boy]

Can you tell me why they could not bring him in for questioning instead of "french frying" the whole lot?

They weren't looking to just "bring him in". The whole point of the operation was to get publicity film footage of the boys of the BAFT in action.

[Bryan24]

My reply was a little bit tongue-in-cheek. The search warrant was horribly botched. I watched a great deal of the congressional hearings on Waco. The ATF agents should have been imprisoned for the shameful way they conducted themselves during that whole "investigation" and "search".

There was blame to go around on both sides.

[Poohbah]

I was not aware that there was a corresponding search warrant. Thank you for correcting my misimpression.

[international american]

I wouldn't friggin doubt it!!

[international american]

Thanks for the education...not ever having been brought in or arrested, I was a neophyte:)