Furious at Spain (Fainthearted Spaniards make the world a more dangerous place)

The Metrowest Daily News [Framingham MA] ^ | March 20, 2003 | Betsy Hart

[Caipirabob]

"Farewell and adieu to you, Spanish Ladies,

Farewell and adieu to you, ladies of Spain"

[xJones]

I don't get it. This is from a Framingham MA rag, home state of John Kerry?!

There's a lot more things this yahoo should be worried about such as Ketchup Kerry being elected president so we can emulate the Spanish.

[BikerNYC]

Yes, the Spanish may have also resented that their government first tried to blame its Basque separatists for the bombings.

Yes, I think this was a major factor. What were the Spanish to do? Vote for a government they didn't want just to send a message to the terrorists? Wouldn't that, too, be letting the terrorists control the outcome of the election?

[livius]

And already ETA, also encouraged by Spain's cowardice, is demanding "negotiations" with Zap. The message has been given that Spain is up for grabs.

[VOA]

And already ETA, also encouraged by Spain's cowardice, is demanding "negotiations"
with Zap. The message has been given that Spain is up for grabs.

Negotiate?
ETA just needs to start leaving backpacks with inert explosives on trains in Madrid.

[xJones]

Wouldn't that, too, be letting the terrorists control the outcome of the election?

The Spaniards voted: Al-Queda 1, Spanish dead nada.

[BikerNYC]

That's one way to look at it. Another way is:

The Spaniards voted: Spaniards 1; Government that lied to them about the bombing 0.

[livius]

The major factor in it, actually, was the Socialist spin on it and the fact that left wing mobs were rioting outside of PP headquarters all during the night before the election. This was not reported very much here, or it was reported that "peace protesters" were "gathering," which was far from the truth. One PP office was burned, and in at least one place, a Socialist party leader was heard dialing up a mob. In others, the fact that it was an organized activity was made pretty clear by the professionally printed and uniform signs that appeared.

Initially, ETA was the logical culprit, having been caught twice trying to carry off just such a train bombing, and the news about an Islamic connection was released as it was discovered. But in the confusion after the bombing, the Socialists saw their chance and they ran with it. This was made worse by the fact that Aznar had declared the end of campaigning, out of respect for the dead, and in essence couldn't discuss the issue of Iraq - while the little extreme left wing parties and the pressure groups had no such limitations. They had anti-US and anti-Iraq signs on display within hours of the bombing. The Socialist Party had only to wait and quietly encourage the others to do its work.

We have to keep this in mind because it could happen here. Not only the attack - but a full scale attempt by the Dems to confuse and intimidate the voters. I put no manipulation, even involving violence, beyond the Dems in this election.

[NativeNewYorker]

a full scale attempt by the Dems to confuse and intimidate the voters. I put no manipulation, even involving violence, beyond the Dems in this election.

Ditto. Bump.

[Smokin' Joe]

Someone gets it. Has anyone considered that the socialists and Al Qaida may be working together on this? Both would like to destroy "the great satan". Either would use an ally of convenience.

People need to be reminded that they attacked us, here in our country, and stopping the war elsewhere won't stop them from coming here and attacking us again.

By caving, the Spanish have set the US up for a round of pre-election terror events, in order to show how 'ineffective' the war has been.

The dems and dem-sympathetic press would jump on this in a heartbeat.

Although such acts would have the desperation of the Tet Offensive, the propaganda potential for the election (the joint dem/Al Qaida goal of defeating GWB) is immense. Just as Tet caused a shift in policy in the US, (even though the Viet Cong were pretty much eliminated as a fighting force--NVA were the main combatants afterward), The propaganda victory, aided and amplified by the US press, eventually cost 1.5 million South Vietnamese their lives.

In this case, however, we would not be able to hand the fight off to the indigenous residents, 'cause they are us.

[quidnunc]

BikerNYC wrote: (Yes, the Spanish may have also resented that their government first tried to blame its Basque separatists for the bombings.) Yes, I think this was a major factor. What were the Spanish to do? Vote for a government they didn't want just to send a message to the terrorists? Wouldn't that, too, be letting the terrorists control the outcome of the election?

Nonsense!

Initially almost everyone in Spain believed it was thhe work of ETA, but before the election the suspicion has shifted to al Qaeda.

The fact, pure and simple, is that spaniards panicked and voted for appeasement.

The argument that the Spaniards were punishing a government which lied to them is just a fig leaf to cover Spanish appeasement.

[Diogenesis]

The Spanish long before ELECTED to lick up to terrorists.

FLASHBACK: EU's leaders including the Spanish at an EU queue
to serially drink sputum directly from the lips of the EU's greatest terrorist-hero,
Arafat, serial murderer of hundreds and hundreds of innocent, elderly and children.

[BikerNYC]

I just don't think it is that simple. First of all, the socialists got only 43% of the vote, hadly supporting a claim that "Spaniards panicked and voted for appeasement." Moreover, there was a large percentage of the people who opposed the war all along, and it would be ridiculous to expect them to turn around and vote for the very government which brought the country into a war they didn't want to get into in the first place.

A year ago, people were claiming that the Spaniards were the greatest people in all of Europe. Now, because they didn't go our way this time, they are cowards and appeasers. Democracy can be a bitch, but if a majority of the people never wanted to go to war in Iraq in the first place, it is not surprising that the government which led them that way got its payback.

I find ridiculous the idea that, because there was a bombing, the people should have supported the government at all costs. With that kind of reasoning, our worry should not be with the Dems, but with those in power who might seek to apply that rule in this country.

[Diogenesis]

There STILL are great Spanish leaders, who are not in control at the moment.

SPAIN

---

AMERICA

"We are not afraid of any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid ...
"You’re a big fellow. But you’re not that big. You’re no warrior. I know warriors....
You are a terrorist, a species of criminal guilty of multiple attempted murders."
To call you a soldier gives you far too much stature. You are a terrorist, and we do not negotiate with terrorists.
We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice. ...
"See that flag, Mr. Reid?
That is the flag of the United States of America
That flag will fly there long after this is long forgotten."
[Federal Chief Judge William Young, First Circuit to Terrorist Shoebomber Reid]

[quidnunc]

BikerNYC wrote: I just don't think it is that simple. First of all, the socialists got only 43% of the vote, hadly supporting a claim that "Spaniards panicked and voted for appeasement." Moreover, there was a large percentage of the people who opposed the war all along, and it would be ridiculous to expect them to turn around and vote for the very government which brought the country into a war they didn't want to get into in the first place. … Democracy can be a bitch, but if a majority of the people never wanted to go to war in Iraq in the first place, it is not surprising that the government which led them that way got its payback.

The was was just as unpopular on the day before the bombing, yet polls showed Aznar's party comfortably ahead.

I find ridiculous the idea that, because there was a bombing, the people should have supported the government at all costs. With that kind of reasoning, our worry should not be with the Dems, but with those in power who might seek to apply that rule in this country.

When a nation is attracked by foreign enemies its people can (a) rally 'round the flag to demonstrate that they will not be subjugated, or (b) capitulate in order to avoid further conflict, even at the expense of their honor and national identity.

The Spanish chose to capitulate.

[BikerNYC]

Polls? Right. We all know around here how bogus polls can be.

To you, "rally 'round the flag" means "rally 'round the party in power." With that logic, there is great incentive for those in power to do something drastic so that people "rally 'round the flag."

[alloysteel]

Hold your fire a little on the Spaniards, they were "rope-a-doped". It was really a very slight shift in the vote totals that showed a momentary lack of confidence in the Popular Party and gave the margin to the Socialist Party. Had the election been a week earlier, or even a week later, the minority Socialists, governing from a plurality augmented by a coalition with smaller minority representatives, could not have named the new Socialist prime minister. As it was, the Socialists could only claim 43% of the vote, just that this total was larger than the Popular Party.

The Popular Party Prime Minister erred in claiming too quickly the bombing was the work of ETA and the Basque separatists, one of the constituencies of the Socialist party. Then it became a national political issue. Only after people had gone to the polls did the truth emerge that the Basque separatists had little to do with the bombing directly.

I don't know if there is provision for it in the Spanish parliamentary system, but there should be a call for a vote of "no confidence" on some issue in the near future, preferably having nothing to do with stationing troops in Iraq. Something the Socialists would have a lot of trouble 'splaining. Maybe a big strike by an emboldened ETA.

[Spanky the Yankee]

Good post Smokin Joe, I firmly believe there's a connection between Al Qaeda & the Socialists. Just take a look at those ANSWER rallies (they might still be available on C-SPAN), there's one socialist group after another there.

[adakota]

The Aznar government party was ahead by a safe margin before the bombings. It is not like the population did not like the Aznar party.