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To: Ronzo
"The statistic is still meaningless, especially since it's an "average."

Rubbish. The very point of contention was whether or not the *average* U.S. wage increased or decreased. The statistics show that such wages increased. That's hardly "meaningless" as you opine above.

222 posted on 03/21/2004 12:28:21 PM PST by Southack (Media bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack; sarcasm
The very point of contention was whether or not the *average* U.S. wage increased or decreased. The statistics show that such wages increased. That's hardly "meaningless" as you opine above.

Rubbish. The bone of contention is whether or not capitalists are behaving in the way Karl Marx predicted. You are using average wages to *prove* that Marx was an idiot. Well, Marx was an idiot but the average wage does not prove it, as a matter of fact, it is ammunition for the Marxists. Why so? Because the data shows very clearly that there has been only a *slight* positive change in the average wage over the course of 40+ years. But unlike the total employment graph, which has been steadily going up until 2001, the average wage graph tracks with inflation, which means, for all practical purposes that wages are stagnant.

So why does this help the Marxists? Because they have said all along that the capitalists are more than willing to pay a "subsistence wage" to their workers, but not much more than than that, ON AVERAGE. That's exactly what the data is showing.

They also said that the goal of capitalism is maximum profit with minimum employees. If people can be replaced by machines and technology, thereby lowering costs (and maximizing profits) for the capitalists, then they will do so, and in fact they have, many times over. However, we are now in a situation where employees are not being replaced with machines and technology, but by employees in other nations --non-capitalist communist and socialist nations at that... Our communist frieneds, like Red China, are doing what they can for their Democrat Party friends here in the USA to increase the distance between the "haves" and the "have nots" by eliminating the middle-class, thereby helping to foster that good, old class warefare that they've been longing for. Since it isn't coming about on it's own, they just want to lend us a helping hand. Generous, aren't they?

Marx also stated that it was very important for the capitalist to always have the unemployed "in reserve" to help keep those subsistence wages at subsistence levels. We now have a situtation where the economy is growing, and no new jobs are being created (at least not here in the USA...) However, the population of working adults keeps increasing over the same period of time, so even if job creation is stagnant, it still represents a bad situation because there are more people looking for the same amount of non-existant jobs.

Thanks to a whole bunch of things; techonology, unfair trade, and just blatant stupidity; there really isn't a limit to what can be outsourced to other countries. Hence, there's no real need to to employ people here in the USA, especially at their high cost, unless they can provide something the overseas firms can't. Over time, those things will become fewer and fewer, as in fact they have been.

So, wages here in the USA should go down right? No, because people won't work if they don't make a subsistence wage. Since the cost of living continues to increase, wages must continue to increase, even as fewer people are actually working. So instead of lowering wages, companies just "outsource" to save money and increase profits. It reduces the number of employees they have to take care of, and it increases profits, just as Marx predicted. The only thing is that he did not forese was how "outsourcing" would be able to advance his cause, nor could he have. This is especially ironic considering it's Marxist nations who are helping the capitalists dig themselves into their grave.

Once again, I think Marx was an idiot. But there are still a lot of people here on planet earth who think he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and they haven't given up on him yet...

Nothing you have done disproves Marx's critique of capitalism, rather you are, in a strange and bizzare fashion, proving him right. None of the statistics you cite are meaningful in the regard of disproving Marx, hence my use of the term "meaningless."

As a matter of fact, the ecomonic conditions that now exist here in the USA are the best ammunition the Marxists have ever had in modern times.

240 posted on 03/21/2004 4:45:11 PM PST by Ronzo (GOD alone is enough.)
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