[Thorin]

Catholics are followers of Jesus Christ. We believe that He is the only begotten Son of God.

As for who believed what when, the Catholic Church (and the Orthodox Churches) have been in existence since the 1st century AD. Fundamentalism is a product of 19th century America; neither Luther nor Calvin nor any of the major Reformers taught, inter alia, the need to be "born again," the doctrine of "once saved, always saved," the Rapture, or dispensationalism, all common beliefs among American fundamentalists. (Of course, I can't say that all American fundamentalists believe in them, since their own interpretations of scripture vary considerably).

[Havoc]

You're making some of the same arguments I'd make. Paul didn't teach the assumption of Mary, purgatory, prayers to and worship/veneration of saints (the words mean the same thing). None of the apostles taught these things, and I haven't even gotten started, they didn't teach Unum sanctum, presence of Christ in bread and wine, indulgeances, prayers for the dead, praying to the dead, Iconography (idolatry), repetitious prayers ala the rosery or the rosery itself.. I could list these things till this thread was the size of a book. These things came into the church as ERROR starting at the outset. Paul stated that Asia turned it's back on his teachings in his time. Error had already crept in so far as to take all of asia. And you're going to tell us that you're right because you claim that you came from the first century. That is not the measure Christ and the Apostles handed us, IS IT! No. It is not. He said if anyone comes preaching a message other than I taught let them be accursed. The message is the primary issue he was concerned with. And that is what we're looking at.

You say, 'but we're old, we're big, others believe this way.' So what. What is the message you preach. I've been over it. Christ said believe and confess him. Paul said believe and confess and you shall be saved. You guys say believe confess, be baptized our way, bowing to our leader or it's null to begin with, then Christ's sacrifice isn't enough, there is a deposit of Grace contributed to by the good deeds of others that is held en banc by the church to dispense to cover what Christ could not. And if you're really worried, wear a scapular, get an indulgeance; but, you must expiate your sins yourself. That is the message you come with and it is unrecognizeable from the Gospel.

If that isn't bad enough, You Anathematize anyone who has the Gaul to say he is assured of his salvation and that Christ covered it. I quoted it from Trent on this very thread earlier. If you actually cling to the real gospel message and confess it, you are accursed by Rome. Now, that's a stance I'd expect from SATAN, not the "one true church." So hand wring if you will; but I didn't make those doctrinal stances up for you. Rome did.

I love you and care about your soul. It ain't about you. It's about what you've been taught by people trying to decieve people into believing they are Christ's Church. No different than What Mormonism has done and it's why you guys have no room to talk to Mormons and can't debate them because they can turn your arguments right back on you. Mormons are labeled a cult and you aren't. If your approaches are the same, why do you suppose they are and you aren't? Especially when your plan of salvation is so different from that in the Gospel. It isn't Christianity.

[Havoc]

One more thing for point of reference that you can check. The Judaizers were christians who believed that we must be
circumsized and keep the law. Paul rebuked them as preaching another Gospel. And rightly so. Catholicism as I noted has heaped to itself far more than that.

[Cronos]

Of course, I can't say that all American fundamentalists believe in them, since their own interpretations of scripture vary considerably

My experience of these lot is that they give a bad name to Christianity. They twist scripture to suit their own purpose and read it with blinkers.

[Cronos]

Of course, I can't say that all American fundamentalists believe in them, since their own interpretations of scripture vary considerably

'Pastor' A likes verse A, person B doesn't, so person 'B' becomes a 'pastor' to spread 'his' (person B's) message.