Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: SoothingDave
Let's look at one section of what Havoc writes:

Havoc writes:

Once. Hebrews states clearly as I quoted last night in chapter nine that it was sacrificed once and applied for all. Christ gave us a finished work - but through your doctrine, you've shredded it, turned it into an erector set and are dispensing nuts, bolts and pieces at a time and are telling the people they have to build it themselves.

We take Havoc's posts referring to quoting chapter 9 of Hebrews to mean the post at:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1101337/posts?page=1128#1128

Hebrews has two main themes. The first is warning against falling into apostacy. The second is the propitiatory intercession of Christ.

Christ died once. But to leave it at that is incomplete. Let's look at Hebrews 9:25-27 (DR):

9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the Holies every year with the blood of others:

9:26 For then he ought to have suffered often from the beginning of the world. But now once, at the end of ages, he hath appeared for the destruction of sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Havoc translates Scripture to claim that Christ does not to keep appearing before God in order to offer sacrifice, but that he was sacraficed once and applied for all - and that's it. Scripture does not state that Christ does not re-present sacrifice before God. It states that Christ's once-for-all offering will not be like the offering of the Old Covenant priests who had to go in and out of the Most Holy Place every year. Christ entered the Most Holy Place, he is there to stay. If that was not the case, he would have to suffer and die over and over. He does not. While in the Most Holy Place, Christ continues his office as high priest, as stated in Hebrews 8:2 (DR):

8:2 A minister of the holies and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord hath pitched, and not man.

and Hebrews 9:24 (DR):

9:24 For Jesus is not entered into the Holies made with hands, the patterns of the true: but into Heaven itself, that he may appear now in the presence of God for us.

meaning that he no longer dies, but through his resurrection power provided the same flesh and blood as at the time of his death on Calvary, which is presented sacramentally on the alter and later consumed by His people.

Additionally, Hebrews 9:23-24, demonstrates that some kind of blood sacrifice is presently occurring in heaven, said sacrifice which constitutes the ongoing work of Christ's eternal priesthood, and that is why Hebrew 9:23 makes use of the word "sacrifices" in plural (n.b. - the Greek qusiva is plural and Greek manuscripts contain no textual variant. The same plural appears in connection with Old Covenant sacrifices as noted in Hebrews 5:1, 8:3, 9:9, 10:1, 10:11).

Christ's sacrificial office is patterned after the priesthood of Melchiziedek who offered bread and wine (see Genesis 14:18), the repeated presentation must point to the bread and wine of the Eucharist, it is the only sacrifice of Christ repeatedly performed. This coincides with Malachi' 1:11's mention of plurality of location ("in every place")

1,253 posted on 03/23/2004 11:56:20 AM PST by Fury
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1237 | View Replies ]


To: All
If I carve a loaf of bread and a cup of wine out of wood and offer them, I'm not offering bread and wine. You claim that the Bread and wine are turned into Christ; but, just retain the appearance of bread and wine. So you aren't offering bread and wine. Christ has already been sacrificed, and Hebrews tells us that sacrifice cannot be repeated. So your own philosophy and the scripture are at odds with you as Catholics.

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Hebrews 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 9:23 and 24 do indeed state he's in heaven - you excluded 25-28 which you knew was there is there and will not be moved - that he entered once and it was over with.
Again, making the scripture a lie for sake of your philosophy.
1,257 posted on 03/23/2004 12:08:45 PM PST by Havoc ("The line must be drawn here. This far and no further!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1253 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson