Gibson's passion film 'too Catholic'

Belfast Telegraph ^ | 19 March 2004 | Alf McCreary

[presidio9]

THE controversial Mel Gibson film 'The Passion of the Christ' has been dismissed by the Evangelical Protestant Society as a 'Catholic' interpretation of events which "does not present the Gospel".

Wallace Thompson, secretary of the Evangelical Protestant Society, said the film displayed "an un-Biblical fixation on Mary, the mother of Jesus. None of this should surprise us, for both Mel Gibson and Jim Caviezel, who plays the part of Christ, are enthusiastic devotees of the traditional teachings of the Church of Rome."

He further claims that Mel Gibson "belongs to an ultra-conservative Catholic group which does not recognise the reforms of Vatican II, and celebrates Mass in Latin".

Mr Thompson says that "this malign influence of Rome ought to cause all evangelical Protestants to reject The Passion of the Christ" and refuse to be swayed by the subtleties of the alleged arguments in favour of it.

Sadly, however, it will be welcomed and praised by many who ought to know better."

Mr Thompson also says that the film is "extremely violent", and that "anyone who watches it will be shaken and possibly terrified by its graphic and bloody scenes."

[OLD REGGIE]

He did ... and we're still being tended, thanks be to God, while y'all wander lost and filled with anger, hate and confusion.

Thanks for your display of love and Christian kindness.

[mdmathis6]

I'm sorry about the confusion...I meant to just touch upon some of the grey areas in our knowledge of the after life.

Interesting enough, did you ever hear of those who had negative near death experiences...not the popular "go to the light" fables? I have heard some that have made my hair stand right on end...especially those who were in Hell and came back having been given a "second chance", and are thus now Christians. You don't hear about the NDE's in the popular media where People have experienced Hell and attacks by demons upon the soul.

[mdmathis6]

Luke chapter 16:19-31...he calls the beggar Lazarus...though he never names the rich man. He also names Abraham as the one speaking to the tormented former rich man now in Hell. In context...Christ appears to have been speaking to the pharisees who Luke calls in verse 14 "the lovers of money".

Lazarus was also the name of the brother of Mary and Martha who Christ did raise from the dead...though that account is in John 11. I don't think it was an accident that Jesus names the beggar as Lazarus!

[The Mayor]

thanks for that link, i've been reading it for an hour or so...

[dangus]

I am not terribly familiar with what I'll call "4 Esdras." I do seem to remember that many considered that it was likely completed after Christ. If your purpose is to study intertestimental writings, I would stick to the dueterocanonical scriptures; I would lump 4 Esdras in more with "The Shepherd of Hermes" than with "Wisdom" or "Maccabees." Such books as Wisdom and 1+2 Maccabees were widely read at the time of Jesus. Whether you regard them as scripture, they greatly shaped Jesus' ministry. (Why does Jesus have such a unique devotion to the Feast of the Dedication? 2 Maccabees tells us the date of that Feast was December 25th*! hint! hint!) 4 Esdras, on the other hand, was never considered scriptural by anyone.

(*actually, the 25th of the Hebrew month most close to december).

[B-Chan]

Traitors and heretics do deserve death.

However, so does everybody else. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Therefore, the State should be extremely cautious about how it administers capital punishment.

The Catholic Church teaches that the death sentence should not be imposed except when no other options exist to safeguard society from the criminal under sentence. In a Christian Monarchy, the justice meted out by the courts would undoubtedly follow this standard. Modern jurisprudence has access to facilities and techiques that were unknown or unavailable in medieval times; I suspect that in most cases at law in a hypothetical Christian government, Christian mercy would prevail, resulting in imprisonment for most crimes, and reserving the stake and/or noose for those whose crimes truly merited the ultimate punishment.

That being said, I repeat: traitors deserve death, and in a society based upon Christianity, heretics may be rightly counted as traitors, as they seek the overthrow of the existing social order. The death penalty itself is an entirely Scriptural and moral practice in such cases, presuming of course that due process is observed.

It's obvious that you are unfamiliar with the history of Europe. Before posting, please do yourself a favor and educate yourself on the true nature of the various Inquisitions and how they operated. (Note: Books by Chick Publications are wholly fantastic and are not acceptable as historical texts.) Interested parties may find this link to be instructive.

[iconoclast]

Thanks for your display of love and Christian kindness.

I get a real kick out you folks ... you bash, bash, insult, and bash again and then you come back with little sentiments like this.

Will the REAL fundamentalists please stand up!

[B-Chan]

Dear Friends:

I enjoy discussing the issues as much as anyone, but in my opinion this thread has degenerated from a discussion to simple bickering, and I see no good to be gained by bickering. We've got a culture war to fight, and in that war Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Evangelicals, and Jews are all in the same army. We can't afford to fight each other when the real enemy is out there. What say we give this thread a rest and turn our energies and attention towards those who seek to destroy our culture?

Yours in Christian fraternity,

B-chan

[B-Chan]

[OLD REGGIE]

I enjoy discussing the issues as much as anyone, but in my opinion this thread has degenerated from a discussion to simple bickering, and I see no good to be gained by bickering. We've got a culture war to fight, and in that war Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Evangelicals, and Jews are all in the same army. We can't afford to fight each other when the real enemy is out there. What say we give this thread a rest and turn our energies and attention towards those who seek to destroy our culture?

Yours in Christian fraternity,

And those of us who won't join with you, under your Catholic Monarchist banner are heretics and will be "lawfully" killed?

"That being said, I repeat: traitors deserve death, and in a society based upon Christianity, heretics may be rightly counted as traitors, as they seek the overthrow of the existing social order. The death penalty itself is an entirely Scriptural and moral practice in such cases, presuming of course that due process is observed."

No thanks. I will have nothing to do with you.

[Havoc]

My claiming the Papacy is a late invention doesn't prevent your church from having existed in some form in the early centuries. I just don't buy that it was called the "catholic" church until Theodosius proclaimed it. I don't accept the logical fallacy that because they come out of the first century (if they do) that having done so makes them the "true" church. And I reject that fallacy laiden position for the precise reason Paul stated - that all asia turned it's back on him.

Personal interpretation is a strawman thrown together for you to duck behind and claim ignorance. I didn't come here demanding you believe me. I came here demanding what Paul demanded and with his authority or are you ignorant of the great commission?

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

[20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

The first verse, you guys like. Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have commanded. All things means all things. Every last one. That means as a Christian I have the same authority Paul had in defending the faith. Every man the apostles discipled was supposed to observe all the same things the Apostles were taught and commanded - ALL THINGS.

I point to scripture and you guys say "but" and go running to find a way around it or an excuse to call it a lie. That is not the mark of the church. That is the mark of the world. And it is why Isaiah stated: Isaiah 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them." Why? Because The word is the light of the world. The word is the testimony of God. It is why Christ said John 9:5 "As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." .

Christianity isn't grabbing a verse here or there that seems to allude to something if you look at it and hold it to up under the sunlight just the right way - twisting it till it is tortured into confession of what it knows not. That is not God's word. His word is the only authority you could claim to have - which is why your church tries to tie it's claims to scripture - even when the scripture proves the claim a lie. Matthew 17:9 - Jesus says it was a VISION. Screach hollar and hiss. VISION. It's there. And it's not my interpretation but what the word of the living God says.

You admit 'not everyone agrees with' your church. But the opposite is what others are arguing and that for some reason, protestants are just Johnny come latelies on trying to correct your church. Rome isn't upset that people aren't Christian, they're upset because others are Christian and as a result reject Rome because Rome is not. All of Rome's authority and power is wrapped up in making people believe they are what they claim to be. The stumbling stone to that is Christ and the Scriptures. Which is why people aren't allowed to read and judge for themselves in Catholicism. It's also why Rome didn't want bibles out there in the common tongue IMO. Sorry; but, you chose your condition, live with it or correct it. But don't try to pull the wool on me.

[potlatch]

Bump!

[Bob Eimiller]

I agree... Satan is enjoying watching Christians judging and attacking other Christians.

People have strong beliefs but they also have strong egos and pride is one of the 7 deadly sins.

Thank you Jesus for dying for our sins, we know not what we do.

[Havoc]

Yep. I have heard such stories and you're right. But I've witnessed some stuff that makes the hair stand up too. lol.
I have a lot of family and friends that work in nursing homes and the difference in the deaths and response to death from different religious backgrounds is really interesting too. You wouldn't pay good money to see a Christian go if you wanted a show. The worst ones usually have to have there, uh, Ministers right there with them. Me thinks if they could, they'd take el minister with them as payback.

[Havoc]

It appears no one has ever talked straight with you before or your used to having your ears tickled. I suppose if you were bleeding to death, you'd curse the person trying to bandage your wound for you and tell them how hateful they are for doing it, eh? The crowd treated Christ the same way - cussing him and abusing him. So you're practically my cheering section. Praying Christ opens your eyes so you can see that word - Vision. God loves you. But get the right Gospel so I'll know you'll be in heaven, ok.

[Havoc]

Satan goes nuts when Christians unveil his deciet. It causes his people to attack, froth and rave. They are blinded to God's truth and will say or do any vile thing. They babble on saying nonsense.. It's a ruckuss. Blindness also causes such people to accuse those trying to help them of all the things they themselves do. They can't see who's committing the sin, all they see is the sin and launch their response at the person betraying it for what it is. Ya'll need to get the real gospel and you'd be amazed how good the truth is.

[OLD REGGIE]

Please sweet lady tell me who was Pope between 304-308. Thanking you in advance for your continued kindness.

Reg