Gibson's passion film 'too Catholic'

Belfast Telegraph ^ | 19 March 2004 | Alf McCreary

[Havoc]

B-Chan: He was speaking to St. Titus. You're not him. With all due respect, you're just some guy who claims to be an infallible teacher of Christian truth — a Papacy of One, Pope Havoc. You will forgive me for sticking with the Pope that we have — the one in the Vatican.

Revelation states that Christ made us "kings and priests" as Christians. Or as Greek scholarship states "a kingdom of priests". Either one is applicable. And Revelation states it twice. Therefore I stand on the ministerial instruction given to Titus and to every other minister as directed in Scripture. I am bound to it just as any CHRISTIAN is.

Vatican II is not a document in and of itself.

So then, you don't know the contents of Vatican II? Are you claiming ignorance to hide or just ignorance? Vatican II enforces the teachings and anathemas of Trent for starters. All of them. It also reinforces UNUM Sanctum - which doesn't, by the way, include an escape clause for "invincible ignorance". It is noted as an infallible pronouncement as it is affirmed and reaffirmed by popes and councils and as such is "unreformable". You quoted the Catechism, which saves us time. So we'll take what you quote here and we'll compare it to what Paul says.

1 Corinthians 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Now, before we look at anything else, let's look at the element of sin. Because this is an earmark that betrays your clergy's lie right out of the gate. Verse 29. How can one partake of a ritual of remembrance and find forgiveness of sin when Paul tells us flatly that if one partakes in sin, he partakes unto damnation. Yours is in direct opposition to Paul's. And what did paul say in Galations. If any man come preaching a gospel other than he delivered let him be accursed. ACCURSED. You're already into blasphemy and we haven't even dealt with the sacrifice yet.

In the Eucharist Christ gives us the very body which he gave up for us on the cross, the very blood which he "poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

No, it doesn't. Scripture states that Body was transformed and ascended into heaven where Jesus sat down on the right hand of the Father (God, not your Pope). If it's in heaven, it cannot be hear lest you make Christ a liar. Christ stated that he would not return until the end. So either you bring Him hear bodily and make him a liar on three points, or you yourself are lying. And we haven't even gotten to the fact that Christianity has no sacrificial system. Swallow.

Christ died, arose and conquered sin's grip over us to SEAL the new covenant and put an end to the sacrificial system. There is no blood sacrifice in Christianity. It took a blood sacrifice to bring about christianity. So to bring a sacrifice as such into the system nullifies it and denies it exists.

Rome pays lipservice to the Gospel and teaches what it will. You may want us to believe you are Christian; but, you aren't teaching the Gospel of Christ and the apostles. Like the Judaizers, you have added to the Gospel and perverted it. It's the same thing. Whatever else you want to say you cannot escape the fact that you have added changed and distorted the word that was delivered.

[IrishCatholic]

Bump for later. I am at work now and only made it a quarter through the Catholic Hater's rant thread. I will try to catch up later on the poor sinners and read the rest of it.
So, keep up the good posts and I will try to pitch in tonight.

[Havoc]

The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.

No. It does not. You wish to twist it to say that because you have no foundation anywhere in scripture that blatently says what you are trying to establish. This is Why Paul made his pronouncement in Galations and why Isaiah made his. Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. Paul knew what he was speaking about because he'd been a Pharisee. He knew the law and the pronouncements of Scripture all too well. You are teaching other than was taught. And as it happens, you're teaching against what Israel taught because you are ignorant of what went before.

[Havoc]

Who asked you? Anti-Catholicism is a garbage buzzword you guys throw around whenever anyone points out the errors and false nature of your claims. You are no different than the Mormons or other cults in so doing. As soon as anyone shines the light of truth on your falsehoods, you all scream as though the heavens were falling. You're in good company. The Saducees and the Pharasees did the same thing.
Imagine that. Can you imagine that I expect it because Jesus told us to expect it. Imagine that.

[Havoc]

Hi Reggie. Told ya, didn't I lol

[Havoc]

You're all over the map aren't you. VISION. Read it. Learn it. Love it. It nullifies your claim. Jesus so stated. It was a VISION.

[Havoc]

17:9 it was a vision, not a visitation.

[Havoc]

No they didn't. I told you myself that it matters not one bit what is in that prayer beyond the active passage. One sentence took it into Blasphemy. You could put the entire Bible from front to back in that prayer and that one line would still be blasphemy. You have to play damage control here or accept the truth and you have chosen damage control.
Good luck.

[B-Chan]

Well, Havoc, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how ill-reasoned or baseless it may be. Think what you want. If you are convinced that you alone have the ability to teach the truth of the Christian faith instead of accepting the Truth taught by the Church for two thousand years, I won't stand in your way. Pope Havoc must not be disputed with!

The Truth is the Truth. I'm not called to sell the Truth to you, only to proclaim it. This I have done to the best of my poor ability. Whether or not you choose to believe in the Truth is, of course, your affair.

Through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, I pray that the Lord bless you, and that you someday come to reconcile yourself with His Church. I pray to you for your intercession also.

Yours in Christian fraternity,

B-Chan

[Havoc]

No, I'm choosing to draw a line in the sand exactly where Paul did. This far and no further. You are proclaiming something unsupportable by scripture and that perverts the gospel. And I will not condone your lies. It is false doctrine and not to point it out would be on my head.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

This is some bizarre, wicked stuff. Although, no one can say the Bible didn't warn against personal interpretation of Scripture:

2Peter 3:15 And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation: as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you:

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

17 You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness.

[Havoc]

Some more for you:

D. "If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema." Council of Trent p46 Sixth Session, Chapter XVI, Canon 30

In other words, according to your church, if a person states he's been forgiven to such an extent that he doesn't have to expiate his own sins (which Christ already paid for), then you are cursed. It calls Christ a liar directly on Multiple points. Blasphemy.

1 Corinthians 1:18 "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." Unto us which are saved - past tense. Just as Jesus' redemption of us is Past tense. Just as the sacrifice is done and over - past. Just as no one can expiate their own sins. This one is a no brainer. If one could clean up their own sins, then Christ need not have come. But Rome teaches that Christ's work on the Cross isn't enough and that men have to cleans their own sin on top of Christ's work. They further teach that Christ's work along with good works of saints, mary, etc go into a type of trust that the Church can parcel out little bits at a time to people as grace toward salvation. Another damnable doctrine found nowhere in scripture. Paul said it's a free gift.

Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Romans 5:16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

Based on what Paul and the Apostles taught, all of them are anathematized by Rome. All of them. And anyone that ever listened to them.

[Havoc]

I'm already part of His church. I will not abandon it and go serve the devil by partaking in false doctrines and teachings that nullify God's word. You can pretend at calling yourself something you are not because you believe it. Belief and reality are separated by the facts just as in Isaiah's time. If you preach other than that which was given before, there is no light in you. That is Isaiah's testimony of your church. There is no light in it.

[NYer]

You wish to twist it to say that because you have no foundation anywhere in scripture that blatently says what you are trying to establish.

Do you subscribe to 'sola scriptura'?

[OLD REGGIE]

Your original ugly hateful slanderous lie was this: You also fail to point out that in those 1500 years, death was most certainly the outcome for anyone who even challenged Papal authority.

I could say you are mistaken.

I could say you are blinded by your hatred.

I could say your foaming at the mouth and spittle is obscuring the CRT.

I could say " LYING IS A SIN. Get your act together!"

In any event, you are wrong again!