Iraq-al Qaeda link

Washington Times ^ | Bill Gertz and Rowan Scarborough

[Lunatic Fringe]

We have obtained a document discovered in Iraq from the files of the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS). The report provides new evidence of links between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. The 1993 document, in Arabic, bears the logo of the Iraqi intelligence agency and is labeled "top secret" on each of its 20 pages. The report is a list of IIS agents who are described as "collaborators." On page 14, the report states that among the collaborators is "the Saudi Osama bin Laden." The document states that bin Laden is a "Saudi businessman and is in charge of the Saudi opposition in Afghanistan." "And he is in good relationship with our section in Syria," the document states, under the signature "Jabar." The document was obtained by the Iraqi National Congress and first disclosed on the CBS program "60 Minutes" by INC leader Ahmed Chalabi. A U.S. official said the document appears authentic.

[Coop]

Doesn't answer my question.

[JohnGalt]

Cheney/Feith/Perle/Wolfowitz et al are government officials.

They claimed that he could be trusted and that his intelligence was better than the flawed CIA intelligence despite reports from career intelligence analysts who said nothing Chalabi provided ever held up to scrutiny.

If Gertz claims thats Chalabi provided yet another document that somehow the entire military defense establishment failed to find, and then Gertz finds an unnamed government official to vouch for the veracity, and that hits your epistemological standard for "good chance its true" then there is this bridge I would like to tell you about...

[Coop]

They claimed that he could be trusted and that his intelligence was better than the flawed CIA intelligence

I recall no such claim. Please show me one.

Chalabi's intel matched up with other intel (U.S., U.N., allies, Saddam's history, etc.). The CIA indeed had some misgivings in their reports, as they should have. Our leaders weighed all the info, and made the correct choice. That's not even debatable, with or without your routine mocking.

[JohnGalt]

Umm...no, it did not. If you cared so little about the process that your own country went to war, Cheney et al's relationship with the convicted felon Ahmed Chalabi or are not even curious as to whether the dupers were duped or were they willing dupers, what were you hoping to gain from this interaction?

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The Man Who Would Succeed Saddam Ahmed Chalabi's First Big Political Test? Surviving Washington. No evidence found on pilot's fate Chalabi even shamelessly supplied 'evidence' Michael Scott Speicher was still alive.
Ahmad Chalabi is loyal to just one cause: his own ambition.
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Chalabi stands by faulty intelligence that toppled Saddam's regime"We are heroes in error," he told the Telegraph in Baghdad.

George Tenet - CIA says Cheney Falsified Claims on Iraq < Levin also questioned Tenet about a Jan. 9 interview with the Rocky Mountain News of Denver, in which Cheney cited a November article in The Weekly Standard, a conservative magazine, as “the best source of information” on cooperation between Hussein and al-Qaida.

br> The article [Weekly Standard 11/15/2003] was based on a leaked top-secret memorandum. It purportedly set out evidence, compiled by a special Pentagon intelligence cell, that Hussein was in league with al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden. It was written by Douglas Feith, undersecretary of defense for policy, the third-highest Pentagon official and a key proponent of the war.

“Did the CIA agree with the contents of the Feith document?” Levin asked.

“Senator, we did not clear the document,” Tenet replied. “We did not agree with the way the data was characterized in that document.”

Tenet, who pointed out that the Pentagon, too, had disavowed the document, said he learned of the article Monday night, and he planned to speak with Cheney about the CIA's view of the Feith document.

[Coop]

Ummm, yes it did. Not each point, but Chalabi's claims were indeed consistent with other intel and the Hussein regime's history. Our intel analysts and leaders would have been foolish to ignore Chalabi, despite his obvious bias (wanting to remove Hussein).

And, yes, I do care about the reasons why we go to war. Which is probably why I understand more than some that WMD was but a small reason for going into Iraq. Politics unfortunately intervened (Merci, France and Germany), and we played up WMD for PM Blair. But I have no problems with what occurred, even if the WMD which we all know existed is never located/accounted for.

[JohnGalt]

The issue was never the WMDs, that is the part you don't get. It was the cynical manipulation of public opinion to win political support for the war that I am daring to call treason, a supreme act of anti-patriotism. A hatred for ones countrymen than runs as deep as the evil of the Marxist moral system that places the execution of the agenda ahead of all established institutions.

[justshutupandtakeit]

RATmedia attempts to make WMDs the reason we went into Iraq are merely part of the anti-Bush attacks it makes 24/7. Another is the "No Exit Strategy" argument. Neither have any more credibility than do you.

Saddam had obvious ties to terrorist movements across the globe (likely even reaching here) including Al Queda which he used and funded to fight the Kurds in the North. Caches of suicide vests were found by our troops which were to be given to his terrorist allies. His diplomats have been kicked out for their aid to AQ affiliates within certain countries.

The close connection to AQ was illustrated by documents from Iraq intelligence files on several occasions as well as by the Madrid bombings. Those disproved the LIE that 1) there was no international coalition to fight the war and 2) that AQ understands clearly that to remove Saddam and disarm Iraq is to attack the very roots of AQ's ability to act. Two RAT lies blown to smithereens by the terrorists they do so much to aid.

[JohnGalt]

You are correct, AQ and Iraq are now linked where as before the Iraq distraction, they were not.

Way to go. Yay War. The Ivy League girly men are so smart.

[JohnGalt]

Powell disagrees: No proof links Iraq, al-Qaida, Powell says

[justshutupandtakeit]

Powell agrees with me that the war was ENTIRELY justified.

[Valin]

Bump

[justshutupandtakeit]

Those at whom you have been directing your bile are not Ivy Leaguers. Wolfy and Perle are U of C.

AQ and Iraq were linked in many ways prior to the war. At one time the newspaper owned by Saddam's son even listed some of those which the regime was aiding. That issue was immediately pulled off the streets when the regime realized that it had let the cat out of the bag. Fortunately, copies escaped the recall and were brought to the attention of those interested in freedom and truth. This was revealed here when it occurred unfortunately for your fellow Leftist disinformation artists.

There are many other pieces of evidence showing these ties which have been posted on FR unfortunately for you and your fellow Leftist disinformation artists.

[sheltonmac]

There are many other pieces of evidence showing these ties which have been posted on FR unfortunately for you and your fellow Leftist disinformation artists.

I guess that explains why the administration is really playing up the al Qaeda-Iraq link. Oh, wait - they aren't. Perhaps they realized they couldn't continue relying on elusive newspaper clippings and "I-knew-a-guy-who-talked-to-a-guy-who-saw-a-guy-who-might-have-thought-that-an-Iraqi-met-with-an-al-Qaeda-operative" kinds of rumors.

If there was a link, the administration would be harping on it 24/7. What better justification than to tie Saddam to 9/11? Believe me. They would if they could.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Administration policy is to wait until every last possible quibble is tied down knowing that the media will not report the truth. There is no doubt that the links were there going back as far as the first WTC attack.

Zarqawi's letter begging aQ for more help shows the current linkage as does the Madrid bombings last week.

Salman Pak showed the past linkages even so far as highjacker training. At least 500 foreign terrorists were trained there in urban combat, explosives and car bombs, sabotage and assassination.

There were meeting between Iraqi intelligence in Iraq, the Sudan, Somolia and in Afganistan all documented by Iraqi intelligence files.

There were meetings in Prague spring 2001 with Mohammed Atta which Czech agents observed. This has been consistently and firmly maintained by the Czechs.

Ansar al Islam was allowed to set up shop, trained and funded to operate in Northern Iraq to attack the Kurds and funded by Saddam.

At least three terrorist training camps were discovered and destroyed by our troops in Iraq. Hundreds of suicide vests were found.

Abu Wael was the link between aQ and Iraq and was described by former Iraqi intelligence agents as "an employee of the Mukhabarat and the decision maker for Ansar al Islam." Such linkages were kept secret from almost everyone including members of AaI.

Abu Wael was directed by Saddam to recruit foreign fighters from outside Iraq and terrorists from Jordan, Turkey, Syria, Yemen, Eygpt and Lebanon were signed up. Many of these have been killed in the ongoing attacks on US troops.

Saddam's diplomats have been forced to leave countries like the Philippines because of their links to the local aQ affiliate.

Many of the foreigners killed in Afganistan were sent there under Iraqi passports.

These are all well established linkages. You need to keep up and recognize that the RATmedia represses such information in its 24/7 attack Bush mode. Too bad you are helping it do its job.

[JohnGalt]

Of course, all of your "evidence" has been debunked, but I appreciate how painful it would be to concede as much. Much easier to blame the "RAT media" in that crankish way of yours.

[justshutupandtakeit]

None of it has been debunked.

[JohnGalt]

Every point you cited has been promoted only by the usual suspects (Cheney, Perle, Mylroie, Feith, Weekly Standard--Fred Barnes and Bill Kristol, Conrad Black's newspapers, Newsmax, and Rupert Murdoch's newspapers--the ones with and w/o the topless girls). The only source this contingent has cited for why they disagreed with US intelligence assessment was the felon Chalabi and his comrades at the INC. The lowest most despicable manipulation must be the claim that Michael Scott Speicher was still alive, don't you think?

Each point has not only been debunked but there are several congressional and Grand Jury investigations related to the manipulation of government institutions as it related to the Iraq War. That you would still at this late date allege a 'RAT media' conspiracy in the phase of Chalabi and the Cheney/Wolfowitz/Feith/Mylroie crowd's utter discreditidation remains is mystifying.

Iraqi exile group fed news media false information Saddam collaborated for years with bin Laden and was complicit in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Intelligence officials said there is no evidence of operational ties between Iraq and al-Qaida, and no evidence of an Iraqi hand in the attacks.

Iraq trained Islamic extremists in the same hijacking techniques used in the Sept. 11 strikes and prepared them for operations against Iraq's neighbors and possibly the United States. Two senior U.S. officials said that so far no evidence has been found to substantiate the charge.

Iraq had mobile biological warfare facilities disguised as yogurt and milk trucks and hid banned weapons production and storage facilities beneath a hospital, fake lead-lined wells and Saddam's palaces. No such facilities or vehicles have been found so far.

Iraq held 80 Kuwaitis captured in the 1991 Gulf War in a secret underground prison in 2000. No Kuwaiti prisoners have been found so far.

Iraq could launch toxin-armed Scud missiles at Israel that could kill 100,000 people and was aggressively developing nuclear weapons. No Iraq Scud missiles have been found yet.

Navy Lt. Cmdr. Michael Scott Speicher, missing since the 1991 Gulf war, was seen alive in Baghdad in 1998. The case remains unresolved, but the Navy last week said there was no evidence that Speicher was ever held in captivity.

[justshutupandtakeit]

None of the sources I use are the ones you mention. All the points have been gleaned from multiple sources over a number of yrs.

Czech intelligence agents have not been discredited with their statements. President Vaclav stands by his agencies wrt this.

British newspapers have not been discredited and are unrelated to your favorite buggaboos either.

A US Court has found Saddam responsible for the WTC attack without reliance on any of those sources.

There is certainly nothing wrong with depending upon Cheney, Perle, Mylorie or the Weekly Standard all are clearly as dependable and truthful as anything YOU have posted. Of course, that is a low standard to meet but true nonetheless.

It is funny to watch you try and convince the world that Chalabi is a felon because of some political trial in Jordan. Likely instigated by his deadly enemy, Saddam. Talk about a Kangaroo court. Of course, you have nothing else to rely on to support your fevered fantasies.

Your quotations are mere disingeneous attempts to hide the truth and they don't even do that very well as a careful reading shows. Look at number 1 it only objects that there were no "operational" ties not no ties.

No. 2 requires one to ignore statements from those who ACTUALLY TRAINED the terrorists in these techniques to believe its claims.

No. 3 had nothing to do with anything I have posted.

No. 4 has nothing to do with anything I have posted although there were certainly MANY political prisoners released by the Coalition forces and there were underground prisons AND childrens' prisons. Any Kuwaitis would have been killed long ago.

No. 5 pretends that no banned missiles were found when there were. It also pretends that there were no programs in place ready to go into action as soon as sanctions were lifted when there were. It also pretends that these toxins could not be made within hours to put in specially designed warheads. WARHEADS WHICH WERE FOUND.

No. 6 has nothing to do with anything I have posted and I never believed the pilot was still alive anyway.

In short your responses are not on the point and do nothing to substantiate your claims. What a shock!

[JohnGalt]

1) The White House disagrees with you; the CIA and FBI disagree with you; the President of Czechoslovakia disagrees with you.

2) British newspapers owned by Rupert Murdoch who employs Bill Kristol, Fred Barnes, underwrites the Weekly Standard, and prints the NY Post; British Newspapers published by Conrad Black who employs Richard Perle.

3) The US Court is headed by a lunatic leftwing judge who sees money in Saudi banks. I noticed you failed to discuss the anti-Bush aspects of that particular courts judgment so I trust you are not familiar with the case.

4) The people who claimed to have trained terrorists at Salman Pak were supplied by the INC and Chalabi as well as an interpreter; when they were interviewed by the CIA they were judged to be untrustworthy and one of the witnesses even suggested that the interpreter had said things he never said.

5) No banned missiles of the kind described by Chalabi and the INC witnesses were found.

This exercise was not designed to change your point of view; you are wedded to it because the alternative is too painful for you. I can understand that at some level, but patriotism is loving your country right or wrong, which implies that your country is capable of being wrong. You are reflecting nationalism, a liberal invention from the 18th Century.

[nutmeg]

ping