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A long read but it is the best explanation I have seen so far as to why we have fringe elements in both political parties. I know there are some here who will enjoy it. And for those who hate it, it is probably because it describes them.
1 posted on 03/17/2004 3:34:54 PM PST by Kerberos
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To: tiamat
Ping
2 posted on 03/17/2004 3:35:21 PM PST by Kerberos
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To: Kerberos
Bump for later.
4 posted on 03/17/2004 3:44:33 PM PST by Blue Screen of Death (,/i)
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To: Kerberos
Christian fundamentalists see it as undermining their understanding of God

Huh? I'm a pretty foundational Christian, and I see good science as only increasing my understanding and appreciation of God. This author has a chip on his shoulder against Christianity.

5 posted on 03/17/2004 3:48:20 PM PST by Theo
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To: Kerberos
read later
6 posted on 03/17/2004 3:49:13 PM PST by RaceBannon (John Kerry is Vietnam's Benedict Arnold: Former War Hero turned Traitor)
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To: Kerberos
Every knee WILL bow and every tongue confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!
8 posted on 03/17/2004 3:52:39 PM PST by Esther Ruth (God bless America - God Bless President George W Bush)
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To: Kerberos
Lots of Straw Man fallacies here. I apologize in advance, but I'm really too bored by the nasty misportrayals of thinking Christians to comment further....
9 posted on 03/17/2004 3:54:01 PM PST by Theo
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To: Kerberos
It's a vast and misleading oversimplification with religion. I doubt whether the author understands that Christians believe in reason too, and that science and technology developed in the West largely because of the way Christianity shaped our culture.

From Christianity we got the concept of free will. From Christianity we got the idea of the Logos, i.e., that the universe was created by a rational God. Therefore from Christianity we got the idea that nature is fundamentally rational rather than influenced by a lot of capricious gods and spirits running around and often fighting one another. Christianity, like Judaism, also supports the idea of making life better for ordinary people.

It was not accidental that science developed in the west. And, as Lynn Thorndike has shown in several books, many of the basic scientific and technological developments took place in the middle ages, well before the Renaissance.
11 posted on 03/17/2004 3:55:27 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Kerberos
The problem is that it is riddled with basic factual errors. I don't mind the sentiment behind it. But supporting a position with faulty arguments is not a great favor. I will go through a few dozen of them.
13 posted on 03/17/2004 3:59:15 PM PST by JasonC
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To: Kerberos
Thank you. That was a pretty good read except for one wrong statement. I majored in psychology and can tell you that the same rules apply as do other scientific endeavors. If a behavior cannot be shown to be statistically significant through rigorous experimentation and replication then somethings wrong with the technique or the reading of data. Reason-something terribly lacking in this world.
19 posted on 03/17/2004 4:15:03 PM PST by fuzzycat
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To: Kerberos
Modern science is the product of a Christian worldview. It originated from Chrisitans who believed that because God designed the world, the truths about nature and its functions were knowable.

The rise of modern science can be dated to Copernicus (1475-1543) and Vesalius (1514-1564). The Greeks, the Arabs, and the Chinese had a deep knowledge of the world. The Chinese had general scientific theories but generally developed a medieval science that accepted Aristotle as the ultimate authority. Arabs were strong in math but they still considered science as one aspect of philosophy.

Modern science can be traced back to Oxford. That is where Grosseteste laid the philosophical foundation for a departure from Aristotle. That lead to fruitfulness at the University of Padua in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries.

Of significance, the Renaissance and Reformation overlapped the Scientific Revolution.

Francis Bacon stressed the need to stop relying on accepted authorities and "to collect information to unlock nature's secrets."

The rise of modern science did not conflict with the Bible. Galileo (regardless of conflicts the the Catholic church) defended the compatibility of Copernicus and the Bible, and this was oneof the factors which brought about his trial.

Both Alfred North Whitehead (1861-1947) and J. Robert Oppenheimer (1904-1967) have stressed that modern science was born out of the Christian world view. Whitehead was a widely respected mathematician and philosopher, and Oppenheimer, after he became director of the Institutie of Advanced Study at Princeton, wrote on a wide range of subjects related to science, in addition to writing on his own field on the structure of the atom and atomic energy. Neither man claimed to be Christian, yet both were straightforward in acknowledging that modern science was born out of the Christian world view. It was because of "the medieval insistence on the rationality of God." Christian scientists and philosophers believed that every detailed occurence could be correlated with its antecedents in a perfectly definite manner, exemplifying general principles.

In other words, early scientists believed that the world was created by a reasonable God, they were not surprised to discover that people could find out something true about nature and the universe on the basis of reason.

20 posted on 03/17/2004 4:16:17 PM PST by King Black Robe (With freedom of religion and speech now abridged, it is time to go after the press.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Evolution ping.
24 posted on 03/17/2004 4:21:28 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Kerberos
Numerous inaccuracies involving history.

Basically God, for some unexplained reason (sin as usual?), killed two-thirds of the European population in a plague for reasons unknown.

Estimates vary, due to the absence of precise census data, but most put the drop in population at somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3. 2/3 may possibly have died in some cities, but since 95%+ of the European were peasants, this was not very significant.

Even the church itself and the Pope were accused of starting the plague. Jan Hus of Bohemia (1372-1415) openly accused the church of conspiracy and gets burned at the stake for his trouble.

I've read quite a bit of history of this period and never ran across this accusation. The Hussites had lots of perfectly good reasons, nationalistic and religious, for rebelling against the Church and Empire.

To the Christians of Medieval Europe the long promised Apocalypse had arrived, and Jesus would surely return soon to claim the faithful and punish the sinners. The Church had taught for ten centuries that all events, natural, political, and social must follow the Bible and all knowledge is revealed there. All events are the work of God for His ultimate purpose. So millions stopped planting crops, stopped planning for the future, and awaited salvation as Christian leaders promised.

I believe this is a myth. Agricultural production was drastically affected, for perfectly obvious reasons, but this sitting down and waiting for God didn't happen on a large scale, as far as I know.

This article is much on a par with the ridiculous and easily disproven claim that more people have died in religious wars than in all others. It's a "let's bash those stupid religious people" funfest.

I don't have time to catalog all his errors.

26 posted on 03/17/2004 4:22:42 PM PST by Restorer
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To: Kerberos
The earth is not 6000 years old, evolution is accepted scientific fact.

Sorry, but that is not the Christian belief. If you start by denying creation what other facts in the Bible are suspect? It is a slippery slope and will lead people to doubt their own faith.
30 posted on 03/17/2004 4:24:57 PM PST by taxesareforever
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To: Kerberos
Note to the Author: "Plaques" carried by "flees" did not kill millions in medieval Europe. Your word processor's spell checker is a poor substitute for a real proofreader.

.......not that anyone cares.
37 posted on 03/17/2004 4:30:21 PM PST by Chuckster ("Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." George Bernard Shaw)
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To: Kerberos
This country spends more on education than most countries in the world combined. Yet for all the money, talk, and hype on education, America ranks at the bottom of the industrial world in biology, geology, ancient history, geography, etc.

This has more to do with liberals who dominate our public school system than it does with religious types. The liberals have destroyed and dumbed down education to the point where it is today. Whether through incompetence or by design, I do not know. But a dumbed down population is much easier to control and that is what the liberals are all about...control.

47 posted on 03/17/2004 4:47:04 PM PST by AlaskaErik
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To: Kerberos
A long read but it is the best explanation I have seen so far as to why we have fringe elements in both political parties.

This article is indeed an excellent example of "fringe".

59 posted on 03/17/2004 5:11:38 PM PST by k2blader (Some folks should worry less about how conservatives vote and more about how to advance conservatism)
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To: Kerberos
"America ranks at the bottom of the industrial world in biology, geology, ancient history, geography, etc. "

I think the article is based on a false premise. The author has a chip on his shoulder against Christianity. He only has a cursory knowledge of the scriptures. He redefines Christianity in the following paragraph. He denies the word of God by denying that Satan is. And it is hard to imagine that a true Christian would say this.

"Freedom makes all people equal, just as God intended. Only those who wish crush freedom, enslave their fellow man, or use terror to enforce dogma, are the real Satan. Satan is not a actuall being but does represent human evil. For that we must be on guard. Jesus wanted His people to be free from Roman tyranny and died at the hands of Romans for His beliefs. Anyone who wants less than freedom for others is no Christian."

60 posted on 03/17/2004 5:12:14 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: Kerberos
Good post.

62 posted on 03/17/2004 5:13:39 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Soros is the enemy.)
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To: Kerberos
Bump - for later acidic commentary.
67 posted on 03/17/2004 5:17:02 PM PST by CarryaBigStick
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To: Kerberos
A Fundamentalist is, by definition, someone who has lost or never found reason.

You can be very devoted to any religion and its doctrine and not be a fundamentalist. You do not become a fundamentalist when you forsake reasonable and rational thinking.

The test of fundamentalism is similar to the test for pornography and poetry: I know it when I see it.

80 posted on 03/17/2004 6:27:03 PM PST by Jeff Gordon (LWS - Legislating While Stupid. Someone should make this illegal.)
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