Plan to post list of gun permit holders online causes debate

The News-Sentinel (Fort Wayne) ^ | Mon, Mar. 15, 2004 | Linda Austin

[RetroSexual]

My phone started ringing almost as soon as the ad appeared in The News-Sentinel on Wednesday promoting today's story on gun permits in Allen County. Several gun permit holders called to protest our plan to post online the list of gun permit holders, which is a public record.

They expressed concern that the list would provide burglars who want to steal guns with a road map to their homes. Or they said the information would make it easier for stalkers to find their victims, who may have obtained a gun for protection. Or they said posting the list would weaken a gun permit holder's defense by removing the element of surprise.

Their calls prompted a re-examination of our plans. I set out to talk to editors and ethicists, professors and prosecutors from across the country to try to assess what would provide the greatest good for the most people: posting the list or not.

The more than two dozen people with whom I spoke, including readers, staffers and the previously mentioned experts, seemed evenly split. So, I decided to delay posting the list while I solicit more feedback. You can register your views either online at www.news-sentinel.com, or by calling 423-4646 if you favor posting the list or 423-4793 if you oppose posting it. Keep in mind that if we do post the list, it would consist of names and towns only of the permit holders.

I can't promise the majority will rule here, but I can promise that I'll consider everyone's opinion. As a firm believer in the marketplace of free ideas, I'm hoping that the truth will come out.

If you're still making up your mind, here's a review of the pros and cons from the people with whom I've already spoken.

[RetroSexual]

The most outrageous, twisted gun-grabbing liberal logic I've seen in a long time. What are they teaching these people in journalism "schools"?

I think they should publish a list of non-gun-owners, so the rapists and thieves know where the easy targets are. After all, it's a matter of public record.

[cripplecreek]

People you should avoid robbing - concealed carry permit holders.

People you can rob - anyone not on the above list.

[steplock]

Any "news media" who would dare print information that is dangerous to innocent people should be destroyed!

No Ifs ands or buts. Burn them to the ground - if the politicians who instigated this communist action happen to be in the building, to "J f'in Kerry" bad for them!

[RetroSexual]

That's true! Although, as the article points out in one of it's many contortions, the list also makes an ideal list of places to hit for those who like to steal guns

[Gorzaloon]

Linda Austin Needs her medical records and credit history, family details and police records published, I see.

It is, after all, in accordance with her belief in a free market of ideas and information.

Want to bet that just perhaps, she would be singing a different tune, and suing everybody in sight for invasion of privacy?

[Stonewall Jackson]

I can't promise the majority will rule here, but I can promise that I'll consider everyone's opinion.

Is this legalese for "I'm going to post my article, but the lawyers say I have to consider the other side's arguments"?

[RetroSexual]

I think it's a fair bet that her name would not be on the list of permit holders!

[EvaClement]

Is this Fort Wayne, Indiana?

[schaketo]

Heck, I would'nt mind the list being published. Consider it a public warning sign that essentially states, mess with my property and there is a high likely hood you'll get your a$$ hauled off in a stretcher. What's so bad about that?

From a libertarian point of view, it's sad that a government has the power to "grant" you a permit. Who gave them permission to suggest who could or could not pack heat if they felt the need?

[William Tell]

Publishing the list would probably be the best thing to have happen if the goal is to prevent the government from making such lists.

Such a list constitutes a very effective way to identify law-abiding citizens who have chosen NOT to carry a concealed weapon. They will be highly motivated to outlaw not just the publishing of such lists, but the maintenance of such lists by government. That is, as soon as criminals realize the value of such a list in targetting the helpless and the disarmed.

[RetroSexual]

Yes. Fort Wayne, Indiana.

[VadeRetro]

You have it. Of the two choices, I'd rather people contemplating crimes against me suspected I had guns than that I didn't. They'll at least wait until I'm not home, that way.

[Hot Tabasco]

Find out who the anti-gun writers are and where they live and send them a kind letter to their HOME RESIDENCE telling them you are going to post the same info on the internet at every pro-gun site you have access to.

Turnabout is fair play.....

[RetroSexual]

Agreed that the real problem is the issuance of permits and keeping of lists in the first place. The thing that struck me was the absolutely hilarious logic displayed in the piece, the typically liberal effort to be fair to all involved and to offend no one, and the bizarre display of journalistic ethics by the author.

Incidentally, since we are still allowed to have long guns without the permission of our government, and also are allowed to own handguns without them being concealed, these permits really tell little about the cross section of the gun owning community.


I imagine that the paper is considering the publication of the list simply because they were so surprised that there were so many permit holders in their neighborhood! Wow, they must be very nervous!

[Integrityrocks]

"I think they should publish a list of non-gun-owners, so the rapists and thieves know where the easy targets are. After all, it's a matter of public record."

Sterling idea!!!!

[Atlas Sneezed]

Bang

[banyanroot]

Voted "NO" and left these comments:

This is utter nonsense! Why not print a list of everyone who has a pool in their backyard? Gregory E. Favre says, "There are too many cases where youngsters have been killed..." by guns. According to the National Safety Council, in 1998 "unintentional injury deaths" was the leading cause for deaths of children. Of these, drownings "...were the second leading cause of unintentional injury death for ages 1 to 4, 6 to 18, and 20. The 1st leading cause was car accidents. Guns didn't even factor in until you get to the age category of 15 to 24 and still only ranks beneath car accidents, drownings, and poison. Should we also publish a list of everyone who has antifreeze in their garage or drain cleaner in their cupboard?

Favre also says, "And while I am a strong advocate that people have a right to a private life, these folks have interjected themselves into the public by purchasing a gun permit..." Well if they did not purchase those gun permits, they would be breaking the law. In other words, they would be criminals but then they wouldn't be included on this list either!

[JamesA]

My above door sign reads "Forget the dog, beware of owner"

[B4Ranch]

EXECUTIVE STAFF --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Executive Editor --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Linda Austin
By phone: (260) 461-8239
or 1-800-444-3303, ext. 8239.
By fax: (260) 461-8817
By e-mail:laustin@news-sentinel.com
By mail: Linda Austin,
The News-Sentinel,
600 W. Main St., Fort Wayne, IN 46802

Why not send the lady a polite email expressing your views?

The rest of the story!

Some argued that because the list is a public record available to everyone, we should post it. Others said because it is available from the state to anyone with $25 to buy the database there is no need to post it.

Some viewed it as a logical extension of the other public records that we publish in the paper, including marriage licenses, divorces and births; or the public records we have posted online, including tax assessments, real estate sales prices and tax delinquents.

They said by putting the information online or in the paper, we're just making it more convenient for people to exercise a right they already have to examine the records.

Another argument advanced for posting the list is that the state has determined that there's a public good in licensing people to carry handguns and making such information accessible to others.

The information has the potential to warn people about others who may be carrying a gun. If you're sending your child to my house to play, perhaps you'd like to know if I have a permit to carry a gun.

Or maybe you're curious about whether a potential business associate, or a neighbor or new acquaintance has a permit.

"There is danger for children when there is a gun present, and that is a strong point," said Gregory E. Favre, distinguished fellow in journalism values at The Poynter Institute for journalism training in Florida.

"There are too many cases when youngsters have been killed or when parents' guns are used to kill others, as has happened in the school shootings. Will knowing about the gun permits completely stop this? No, but it might prevent some. Even one would be worth it.

"And while I am a strong advocate that people have a right to a private life, these folks have interjected themselves into the public by purchasing a gun permit," said Favre, former president of the American Society of Newspaper Editors.

The list doesn't include everyone who has a gun. Plenty of people carry guns illegally. No permit is required for rifles and shotguns. And just because you have a permit doesn't mean you have a gun.

Fort Wayne Police Chief Rusty York doubted burglars would use the list to target the homes of permit holders. "Burglars are opportunists," he said.

On the flip side, some said knowing a person has a gun permit could send burglars or stalkers looking for easier marks.

Weighing in against posting were Maxwell E.P. King, former editor of The Philadelphia Inquirer; Bob Steele, Nelson Poynter scholar for journalism values at the Poynter Institute; Allen County Prosecutor Karen Richards; and reader Fran Hale.

"The two reservations you report -- that gun thieves will be aided and that people who bought guns for personal protection may be compromised -- do have some merit," wrote King, former chairman of the Values and Ethics Committee of the American Society of Newspaper Editors. "Publishing the names could seem needlessly intrusive." Or as Steele put it: "I don't see the journalistic purpose of this one."

Prosecutor Richards described posting the database as "a very dangerous thing to do. ... I think you're putting people at risk, especially putting them at risk for burglaries."

And finally Hale described the situation of a relative who has a gun permit and frequently leaves his pregnant wife and two children home alone. "You're putting my family in danger," she said.

Please let me know what you think.

What do you think?