Spain PM to withdraw Iraq troops

BBC ^ | 3/15/04

[Vernon]

If the French are frogs, what animal represents the Spanish

El Corrida de Toro con no cohones! (or something like that!)

[WVNan]

MP, I sent a "thank you" to Poland's embassy in D.C. I would also like for you to pass along to the people my "THANK YOU" for staying the course with us against this evil.

[freedom moose]

i'll keep my reply brief since it's not of interest to everyone.... yes Franco got help from Hitler during the Spanish Civil War (Guernica being the most notable action involving Nazi help). Franco was technically neutral during WWII (i think Greece was too) although Franco sent a volunteer division (called the Blue Division) to help the Germans. there are many page about this if you're interested http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/axis_allies/blue_division.htm for example which seems pretty accurate at least from what i know. later franco was pressured to withdraw the volunteer force (by the allies) which apparently he never completely did. also, some political prisoners from Spain were sent to concentration camps (i'm unsure of the number), they even had a special star badge to wear.
I have a friend whose grandfather was in the blue division. he's not proud of it, but he tells some funny stories like how when they all first started training with the germans they would eat the entire day's rations and smoke all their cigarrettes at lunch and of course they couldn't deal with the cold very well. take a look around the web. you can find a lot of good info, much of it presented without spin.

[Da Mav]

The New Face of Spain

slightly risque so I'll just post the link

http://www.damaverick.com/spainbentover.jpg

[driftless]

I wonder how Spain managed to get a good leader like Aznar elected considering how leftist the main body of Spanish voters appears to be? If Spain thinks it can sit out the war on Islamo-fascism by sticking its head in the sand and appeasing these murderers, it is sadly mistaken. It will regret its slide back into pacifism and noninvolvement. It will be safe...for a while. And then the Islamic b------s will be back.

[xusafflyer]

Very possible. an unstable Italian gov't is so common now, I forgot all about them.

I would expect something to happen here in the US around October as well.

[Happy2BMe]

Observe the socialist Party closely in Spain - we have one just like it here in this country. They are called Democrats.

[dvwjr]

Originally posted by Burkeman1:

"We did not win WWII one our own at all. The bulk of the fighting was done by the Soviets. The Western front was an after thought to Germans in their war plans. The ever glorified "Battle of the Bulge" - does not even merit any comparison to any of the Major or even middling Soviet- German engagements on the Eastern front. The Germans had a fraction of their forces arrayed against the Allies on D-Day that they had on the Eastern Front."

I would agree that most Americans do not have any concept as to the battles and losses suffered by the Germans and Soviets on the Eastern Front in WWII. The US did not win WWII in the European theatre by ourselves (but did in the Pacific theatre) as many believe. Battles like Kursk overshadow the "Battle of the Bulge" in sheer size and scope. However, the myth that in 1944 most of the German Army (to include the Waffen-SS) were on the Eastern Front is due to the German practice of "re-structuring" the size of their field divisions to reflect available manpower due to combat losses. In short, the number of divisions stayed the same, but the size of each division shrank. The percentage of the total available 347 German combat divisions that were deployed to the Eastern Front in June 1944 was a still high 57%, but this represented only 40% of the German Army manpower available. This was a substantial decrease from the 72% of German Army manpower previously deployed to the Eastern Front in June of 1943. The Allied fronts in Italy and France did remove substantial forces from the Eastern front by June of 1944. Hitler's 'Enron accounting' with division strengths allowed him to continue to believe that he fielded the same Army as in mid-1942/1943.

Number of divisions available for these countries over the course of the war:

Country	1939	1940	1941	1942	1943	1944	1945	End of War
France	86	105	0	0	5	7	14	14
Germany*	78	189	235	261	327	347	319	375
Great Britain	9	34	35	38	39	37	31	31
Italy	6	73	64	89	86	2	9	10
Poland	43	2	2	2	2	5	5	5
Romania	11	28	33	31	33	32	24	24
USSR	194	200	220	250	350	400	488	491
USA**	8	24	39	76	95	94	94	94

*towards the end of the war, many of these divisions were either incomplete or poorly equipped
**including both Army and Marine divisions and accounting for the Pacific theater

Location Of German Divisions In June Of Each Year

Country	1941	1942	1943	1944
USSR	34	171	179	157
France, Belgium & Holland	38	27	42	56
Norway & Finland	13	16	16	16
Balkans	7	8	17	20
Italy	0	0	0	22
Denmark	1	1	2	3
North Africa	2	3	0	0

Percentage Of German Forces On The Eastern Front Each Year

Unit	1941	1942	1943	1944
Divisions	67%	75%	60%	57%
Troops	84%	74%	72%	40%
Aircraft	64%	65%	42%	45%

Source: WWII in Europe: WWII Statistics

dvwjr

[BushisTheMan]

I'm wondering WHO organized the march against the current government? Do you think it was ANSWER and other Socialist organizations. Can we really believe the march was spontaneous?

Where Socialists and DemoRATs are involved, never assume it just happened.

[cake_crumb]

What Spanish troops? John F-ing Kerry says Iraq was UNILATERAL action by Bush. Therefore, no other countries can possibly be involved.

</end sarcasm>

Seriously though...Spain's new socialist leader giving in to terrorists means the Moores won after all. It just took a while.

[Atlantic Friend]

I happen to have one, connected to a full set of bones. Don't you think saying Spaniards are cowardly appeasers because they didn't voted the way you wanted is a bit outlandish, by the way ?

[Atlantic Friend]

Er, aren't American ancestors and European ancestors more or less the same guys - except for Black Americans and Indian Americans of course ?

[Cooter]

I wonder if the DemocRATs here in the US would stoop low enough to arrange a bombing or other sort of "terrorist" event here just before our election in December to try outs GW? After all, the example has been set and prooven to work. Kerry has already indicated (unintentionally) that he will be soft on terrorists. What's to stop this from happening here?

I'm not saying he arranged it, but Clinton sure took political advantage of the OKC bombing. From The resurrection of President Clinton:

Relaxing on Air Force One after the 1996 elections, Bill Clinton told a pool of reporters that he owed his political revival to the Oklahoma bombing. He was in a reflective mood, looking back at the ups and downs of his turbulent presidency. As so often, his thoughts lingered on those first painful months after the Republicans captured both Houses of Congress for the first time in almost two generations. It had been a stinging rebuke for the White House. But then that bomb went off. "It broke a spell in the country as people began searching for our common ground again," he said.

[Atlantic Friend]

YOu didn't have any help in the Pacific ??? Well, that's real nice for the Australian, British, Chinese, Dutch, Indian and New-Zelander troops that fought and died there, pal.

[Mark Felton]

COALITION OF COWARDS

[cake_crumb]

"On FOXNEWS just at 8:00 am Poland said that was fine with them and POLAND will send troops to replace Spain. WE have allies in Poland."

Yep, thank heaven for REAL allies! Thank Heaven for Poland!

[The Wizard]

when they get hit again, who will they blame then...

[cake_crumb]

"The terrorists win. I see AQ attacking the US shortly before our election in November, hoping for a similar result. They'll be unpleasantly surprised, since American's NEVER vote Democrat when they feel threatened."

And don't forget Italy too...there is as little support for Iraq in Italy as there is in Spain.

[sully777]

RUNAWAY! --Monty Python's Holy Grail