Ohio's Critical Analysis of Evolution

Critical Evaluation of Evolution ^ | March 2004 | Ohio State Board of Education

[Fester Chugabrew]

The capacity to distinguish between the interrogative, indicative, imperative, subjunctive, ablative, vocative, and optative moods is a sure sign of intelligence and design. Your persistence in demonstrating the same will assist in the collection and organization of data to support the reasonable assumption that your capacities are manifested not only as a result of intelligent design, but also as a stimulant for additional evidence that dogmatic evolutionists prefer to deny the obvious in favor of their own egos.

[Right Wing Professor]

The PERFECT creation NOW messed up by sin??

Most of the pseudogenes are dated in the 10 - 100 million year range. They're shared by chimpanzees. As far as I know, chimpanzees didn't share in the sin of Adam.

(BTW, here's a prediction based on evolutionary theory. We won't know the chimpanzee genome until midsummer. Let me go on record as predicting between 40 and 60 cytochrome c pseudogenes in Pan troglodytes).

[Right Wing Professor]

The capacity to distinguish between the interrogative, indicative, imperative, subjunctive, ablative, vocative, and optative moods is a sure sign of intelligence and design.

The Finns must be better designed, then, because they have 14 cases. And those aren't all moods, BTW; indicative and imperative are moods. Ablative vs. accusative are cases.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Well, 6 is just perfect, and so is 28. That's why the Earth was made in 6 days. Also 6+1=7 requiring 7 days in a week and 28+1=29 requiring the Moon to circle every 29 days and neither seems to have much to do with cicadas which don't necessarily feed on cycads. It's hard swim against the current in a stream of conciousness.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Indicative, imperative, subjunctive, and optative are moods. Ablative and vocative are cases. None are aorist, imperfect, nor preterit.

[Right Wing Professor]

You've avoided the main issue, which is that all of the complexity you see in the world is probably the deterministic result of a few simple laws. You then are faced with the task of proving that the existence of a small set of universal laws is the result of 'design'. Good luck with that one. Reiterating it over and over again won't help.

I was hoping you would consider the question more seriously and expound a bit further than this. If anything, your example only bespeaks your personal bias against a human product that, regardless of its deficiencies, is another clear example where intelligence HAD to be exerted through a personal agent to achieve a desired result.

The Edsel example was obviously too subtle for you. Design does not necessarily imply high intelligence. In fact, the ID case is harder to refute if you concede that most organisms are not particularly intelligently designed. The Manichaeans, for example, believed that the Earth was created by an imperfect and capricious junior deity. Elsie is pushing the idea that God created a perfect genome and Original Sin (by some molecular mechanism yet unknown) messed it up. And, gosh, if you claim there is order in living systems, but not particularly intelligently designed order, I'd have a tough time arguing with you.

[Right Wing Professor]

Another victim of amo, amas, amat, I see.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Self-inflicted.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Try the following (a graphing program is helpful.) Take an equilateral trangle (any one will do.) Pick a point at random (not one of the vertices); this is the moving point. Then continually LOOP: choose one of the vertices at random (has to be random), move the moving point halfway to the chosen vertex; draw a dot there; POOL (that's 1970s computerese for REPEAT).

[Virginia-American]

Finnish cases:

nominative
accusative
genitive
partitive
essive
translative
inessive
elative
illative
adessive
ablative
allative
abessive
comitative
instructive

reference

[PatrickHenry]

Latin modes: Indicative, subjunctive, imperative, locative, and vocative. All from memory. If I've goofed up, it's because Adam's sin has degrated my genome.

[Fester Chugabrew]

Thank you for the clarification WRT linguistic nuances. Will be backatcha on the other responses a bit later.

[Elsie]

No... 345 DO have a motive: the cops just don't KNOW it yet.....

[Elsie]

On the water question... astronomers says there might be water,as ice, on the moon, perhaps in polar craters, where the Sun don't shine. (Alright you jokers - leave this thought alone!)

My question is: How could this be? I thought that in the vacuum of space (or Moon) that ANY ice would sublimate away, like my cubes do in my freezer compartment.

[general_re]

"What's this then? 'Romanes eunt domus'? 'People called Romanes they go the house'?"

[Elsie]

 

 

As far as I know, chimpanzees didn't share in the sin of Adam.

True, but they ARE part of the Creation, which has been (I'm told) messed up.

  

 

 

 

Matthew 25:34

  "Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

 

 

Mark 16:15
   He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

 

 

John 17:24
   "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

 

Romans 8:18-25
 18.  I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.
 19.  The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
 20.  For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
 21.  that  the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
 22.  We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
 23.  Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
 24.  For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?
 25.  But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

 

 

Romans 8:38-39
 38.  For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,  neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
 39.  neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

 

Ephesians 1:4
   For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

 

 

Hebrews 4:3
   Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, "So I declared on oath in my anger, `They shall never enter my rest.'" And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. (Kinda hard for us "C" folks to think that a continuing creation is part of God's plan.)

 

 

1 Peter 1:20
   He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

 

 

2 Peter 3:3-7
 3.  First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
 4.  They will say, "Where is this `coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."
 5.  But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water.
 6.  By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
 7.  By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

[Junior]

You answered your own question -- the ice is shielded from atmosphere and sunlight; there is nothing striking the ice and knocking away water molecules.

[Junior]

...degrated...

And degraded your spelling abilities, to boot.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Latin "Yankee Go Home" equivalent?

[Right Wing Professor]

Within limits, I suppose, you could take the story of the Fall as an allegory of the corruption of good by evil. The problem is that if you pin it on Man, you have to ignore the genetic evidence that retrotransposons (evil little buggers that they are) entered the human line long before we diverged from the apes; the same goes for much of the other nonsense in the genome. Unless you ascribe to Satan powers of time travel, or unless you say all of the scientifc evidence was put there to fool us, the timeline doesn't work.

The passage from Hebrews you quote - that the creation was completed long ago - would seem to be consistent with the beliefs of Christian evolutionists who hypothesize that God set up the right initial conditions for the Universe, and everything imply ran deterministically from there. On the other hand, you have to wonder - what's the difference between a highly detached deity creating the right set of initial conditions and stepping back, and a near infinite set of universes, one of which has the same physical laws by accident, which we happen to inhabit? In one case the Universe was created for us; in the other this happens to be the only one of an incomprehenisibly large number in which we could possibly have evolved, and thus, in a sense, it was created for us.