Spain's spies see Muslims behind attack-radio

Yahoo UK ^ | 3/13/04 | Yahoo UK

[livius]

Thanks! Searching...

[Centurion2000]

I think the attack was a mafia style warning. Most of Spain was against the war. They're banking on this attack to havng weakened their resolve.

Let's see, Spain fought a 500 year war against Islam and WON. Boy did those camel humpers make a bad call on who to try and intimidate.

[Allan]

Did he say who he thought might have been behind it?

The Salafia Jihadia
which is the name the Wahabis give themselves
in North Africa.

They were responsible for the bombings in Morocco a few months back.

By the way
to quote Loftus accurately
he said there were "strong suspicions" it was the Safia Jihadia.

[dennisw]

http://www.iberiannotes.blogspot.com/2004_03_07_iberiannotes_archive.html#107909731550182377

Pointing toward ETA:

1. They've been trying to pull off a big hit in Madrid for years.
2. They know the Henares area and the etarras arrested in Cuenca on Feb. 29 with 536 kilos of dynamite had a map of the area.
3. They tried to pull off a big hit with a bomb on a train last Christmas Eve.
4. They wanted to disrupt the first elections without their illegalized political arm, Batasuna, at all costs.
5. They often use the types of explosives used in Madrid.
6. They don't always warn before an attentat.
7. The internal debate within the organization may have radicalized them even more.
8. They left booby traps for the bomb squad, a habitual ETA tactic.
9. So far there is no evidence of any suicide terrorist.

Pointing toward Al Qaeda:

1. The van used had a tape with Koranic verses in it.
2. The explosives (do they mean detonators?) found in that van are not habitual with ETA.
3. ETA has never committed such a large mass bombing before.
4. ETA has never used so many people on a hit.
5. This massacre will offend at least some of ETA's base support, who don't mind killing cops but draw the line at civilians.
6. There are parallelisms with 9-11 and this attack is 2 1/2 years later.
7. The police have been watching out for an ETA attack but not an Al Qaeda one.
8. The titadyne is better quality than typical ETA titadyne.
9. Islamic terrorist gangs do not always use suicide bombers.
10. Islamic terrorists already hit Spanish interests in Casablanca "because of our support for Bush".

It seems to me that all these points are fairly reasonable, but I still say those indicating ETA are much stronger than those indicating Al Qaeda or some other Islamic group.

[dennisw]

http://www.iberiannotes.blogspot.com/2004_03_07_iberiannotes_archive.html#107909731550182377

Why I am convinced ETA did it

1) It fits their MO. The bombs were made with small quantities, 8-12 kilos, of titadyne and what they're calling "compressed dynamite", which is the standard ETA technique.

2) The operation was within their capacity. To pull this one off you would need a bombmaker, who obviously never got anywhere near the trains; a couple of spies to spend a couple of weeks scouting the ground; a couple of people to transport the bombs; somebody running a safe house or two; and the actual bomb planters. While ETA is weakened and on its last legs, they've got the capability to pull off an operation of this size. They didn't need any specially trained pilots or suicide fanatics or the ability to beat airport security or huge amounts of money or international connections to commit such a massacre. All they needed was a hundred kilos of explosives, a skilled bombmaker, and 15-20 conspirators who may well have been working in several different cells.

3) It fits their recent history. The most significant clue is that on Dec. 24, 2003, they planted a bomb on a train in San Sebastian that was timed to go off when the train reached Chamartin Station in Madrid. Fortunately, the bomb planters were caught and the train was stopped at Burgos, where the bomb was discovered. The MO was exactly the same as in the Madrid bombings except that the bomb was larger, 50 kilos of titadyne, and hidden inside a suitcase rather than backpacks.

On Feb. 9 of this year, an ETA caravan was stopped by the French police near Bordeaux. They were carrying all sorts of weapons and explosives to be passed to a new commando inside Spain.

Then, on the last weekend of February 2004, the police stopped another ETA caravan at Cuenca with more than 500 kilos of explosives that were to be used for terrorist attacks in Madrid.

4) It fits in with the election campaign; general elections are to be held on Sunday, March 14, in two days. ETA has tried to disrupt general elections every time Spain has had them. Most famously, during the 1995 election campaign (April 19), they tried to assassinate Jose Maria Aznar, then PP candidate for Prime Minister. Aznar survived the bombing because of his armored limousine. A passer-by was killed.

5) The story that ETA "always gives a warning" before planting a bomb is simply false. They didn't give a warning when they loaded that bomb on the train in San Sebastian, for example. Or on July 14, 1986, when a bomb killed 12 people and wounded 50 in Madrid. Or on December 11, 1985, when a bomb in Madrid killed six people and wounded 19. Or on October 30, 2000, when a bomb killed three and wounded 66 in Madrid. Or on June 21, 1993, when a bomb killed seven people and wounded more than 30 in Madrid. Or on June 19, 1987, when a bomb killed 21 and wounded hundreds at the Hipercor department store on Avenida Meridiana here in Barcelona.

6) The behavior of Arnaldo Otegui, "leader" of Batasuna, the political branch of ETA. He denied ETA involvement in the bombings and blamed a group of "Islamic activists". Otegui was the first person to publicly float the hypothesis that this was an Al Qaeda bombing, though he didn't say Al Qaeda. Now, I personally don't believe anything Arnaldo Otegui says. You can believe what you want.

7) The facts are that the only other clues linking Islamic terrorists to the Madrid bombings are a) an e-mail from somebody saying he was from the Martyr Abu Hafs Al Masri Brigade, who has claimed to be behind everything from the UN bombing in Baghdad to the Marriott Hotel bombing in Jakarta to the blackout in the US Northeast, falsely, and b) a cassette tape with Koran verses on it found in a van linked to the bombing. That's awfully slim evidence. Also, the fact that Reuters jumped all over circumstance a) makes me extremely suspicious. Reuters is not at the top of my list of most trusted international news services.

Zap crosses the line

Just minutes ago Socialist party candidate Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, speaking live on television, for the first time tried to use the bombings as a political issue. He was able to maintain his decency for about 26 whole hours before diving into the gutter. Zap said that the Aznar government should share everything it knows with the citizens, thus implying that was exactly what Aznar and the PP were not doing. Now, accusing the Prime Minister of holding back information from the public based on absolutely no evidence is, uh, not exactly mature, professional, reasonable, or responsible. Question number one was a direct, "Are you accusing Aznar of a coverup?", and Zap evaded the question. Number two was "Do you see a connection between the bombings and the Iraq war?", to which Zap responded "Time will tell."

This man is not fit to be truant officer, dogcatcher, or even the guy in charge of sweeping my street.

Comments (27)

[I_saw_the_light]

Just saw this, dont know if its been posted yet:

AP-Europe

OLDE, Norway - Norwegian researchers have found documents that could link the al-Qaida network to terror bombings that killed 200 people in Madrid, Spain.

Experts from the government's Norwegian Defense Research Establishment said the documents found on an Arabic-language Web site last year suggest Spain as a possible terror target because the country had been part of the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq.

SNIP

"We must make maximum use of the proximity to the elections in Spain in March next year. Spain can stand a maximum of two or three attacks before they will withdraw from Iraq," the documents said, according to daily newspaper VG.

SNIP

Researcher Thomas Hegghammer told the paper the researchers first thought the 42-page document referred to attacks against coalition forces in Iraq. "But the fact that they specifically mention the election in Spain, makes us have to see this in the light of the action in Madrid, three days before the election," Hegghammer said. Norwegian Defense Research Establishment spokeswoman Anne-Lisa Hammer told The Associated Press the researchers would not speak to journalists Saturday, but added that the Norwegian reports were accurate.

snip

State broadcaster NRK said the documents do not refer to Thursday's attacks in Madrid but outline a strategy to pressure Spain, described as the weakest link in the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq, to stop cooperating with the United States. "The author, who is anonymous, is very well-oriented in Spanish politics. We cannot say for sure that this document stems from al-Qaida. We don't have any reason, either, to believe that it isn't real," researcher Brynjar Lia told VG. The document suggests attacks on Spain would lead to the collapse of the fragile Iraq coalition set up by the United States if they forced Spain to withdraw.

[ClearBlueSky]

NEWSFLASH!
They can't do these things IN your country if they're NOT IN your country.
A basic fact many still do not want to face.
And so the terrorism and stunned reactions to it goes on.

[WhistlingPastTheGraveyard]

I think the attack was a mafia style warning. Most of Spain was against the war. They're banking on this attack to havng weakened their resolve. It works in the middle east and parts of Europe.

It only works on those who never had any resolve in the first place.

I'll never understand the person who sees Islamist carnage and says, "see, I told you we shouldn't have gone after them".

[happygrl]

John Loftus was an army officer assigned to train the Israelis on the original T.O.W. weapons in the 1970s during the 1973 Yom Kippur War.

He also has continuing ties to those in the CIA.

He's much more than a radio show talking head.

The best book on the US' history with the Saudis was written by him: The Secret War Against the Jews which details the anti-Semitism of our State Department, inherited from the British when they handed off responsiblity for the Middle East to us after WWII.

[tubavil]

No muslims, no terror.

[swany]

Seems to me the ETA and Al Queda interests would both be served for them to work together on this and place blame with Al Queda. Their aim, to put the Socialist in power to make it easier on the ETA and put a wedge between the alliance of Spain and America.

If so, I truly hope they have misjudged the response of Spain's electorate.

[sheik yerbouty]

One never knows. The name "Matamoros" comes to mind.

[river rat]

Perhaps the expression "Kill them all, and let God sort them out"......was indeed aimed at Muslim terrorists....

It may become the only rational option, if the Muslim nations don't play a more effective role in exterminating the vermin in their midst.....

QUESTION - Has any Islamic cleric condemned this action - or issued an "Islamic Death Notice" on the evil doers?

I thought not.....


How long before ALL Muslim nations achieve "rogue nation" status.....

Semper Fi

[The Good Doctor]

This could be a test by al-qaeda to determine how a terrorist attack could influence an election. If the election goes poorly for Spain's centrist-right government, then a similar attack here (October), would bode poorly for GW. We know al-qaeda's choice for prez...

[steveegg]

If I were in the Spanish Popular Party, I'd be pushing the "old scores" angle, and the fact that al-Qaida seems to think that Spain is still part of the Muslim empire.

[livius]

Thanks, great comments!

Zap crosses the line

"This man is not fit to be truant officer, dogcatcher, or even the guy in charge of sweeping my street."

[bootless]

I'd expect many Spaniards to take matters into their own hands when the official sh*t news hits the fan.

Paging Indigo Montoya. I think the Islamicists are about to discover something about the strength of the Spanish character.

[Iberian]

Good post. Spain forgot to erradicate them on the way out.

[Steve Eisenberg]

Luckily, the Spanish are not the French. The thousands of mourners in the streets testify to their resolve.

Even in the US, staying out of war unless absolutely necessary is a popular policy. Look how long it took us to get into World War I and World War II. After Vietnam, we most of us said no more halfway wars. Then we spend over ELEVEN YEARS of low level warfare against Saddam, occupying the nothern quarter of Iraq and bombing the Baathists military every few weeks. If it wasn't for 9/11, and even after if the likes of John Kerry had his way, we still would be bombing the hell out of Iraqi draftees every few weeks for no decisive results.

So, first of all, our civilians aren't that much better than the Spanish. They're are scared and don't see 1,000 Spaniards lost to terrorism in recent decades as a good record. So they will probably will vote in the socialist in hopes appeasement of the Islamofascists will work better. I will be VERY glad if I am wrong. A socialist victory today will be correctly interpreted as an Al Queda success.

When bin Laden talks, he almost always talks about killing Americans, not Spaniards. This is not really their battle and I am not going to blame them if AQ, excuse me, the Socialists, wins today. Now, if they formed a national unity government to frustrate to intent of the attack, that would be very nice and about the best we can hope for.

Just the gut feelings of a pessimist.