Division's aim is more humvee firepower

Marine Corps News ^ | March 4, 2004 | Lance Cpl. Samuel Palmer

[archy]

Didn't the IDF have a gun that could "shoot around corners" with the barrel seperated from the LCD screen and trigger ?

Yep. Though only pistol caliber.

But for very close encounters, particularly against human bombs, there are possibilities there.

[archy]

"Our intent is to make this mount available for OIF II as soon as possible," Frich, 1st Marine Division's ordnance officer, said about a prototype mount that allows attachment of several crew-served machine guns on vehicle doors.

I say, old girl, you don't suppose those Yank Marines pinched one of 'er Majesty's Land Rovers for the prototype of that *new* MG mount, do you? Of course, if they happened to have gotten one from the Royal Marines, that'd be jolly well appropriate. But the Brit [and 6-wheeled Ozstrayuliun Landies have had those articulated gun mounts for at least a decade now.

Ah well. Clinton years....BTW the Ozzies have been mounting the F89/M249 SAW on their 4-wheel drive scouting ATVs, too, so it's a good bet we'll see some interesting SAW mounts for the Marine M-Gators as well.

[archy]

All loaded for a fast raid, they can carry 16 shooters, inside and hanging on!

The idea is to carry a 4-man crew [*brick*], but be able to evacuate an entire 4-vehicle patrol if the other three vehicles are lost to hostile action. But if a need to carry extra personnel along for a raid- as when it's expected enemy vehicles can be made off with- they can indeed stack supernumeriaries aboard, and practice immediate action drills so that with the extra hanger's-on, noone gets in anyone else's gun arc or area of responsibility.

[SAMWolf]

LOL!

[Travis McGee]

Damn. It's a young man's game, dammit!

[windchime]

Bump!

[archy]

Damn. It's a young man's game, dammit!

Popski was around 50 years old at the end of WWII and though nominally a Major was really running a company sized unit; Finland's Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim was 62 in 1939 when the Russians invaded, and while he wasn't kicking doors or making ski raids personally, if the Russians had penetrated to his headquarters area I expect he'd have took a personal hand in the defense; he was the sort of fellow who led by example.

Speaking of Popski and his Eighth Army Western Desert raiders, I understand that the 4th Brigade of the British Paras was offered their choice of a visit by Samantha Fox or any of another currently popular BritBirds for a visit to the troops...and the word went out to the troop-sergeants and RSM, and the paras had a request: might we have Sir General John Hackett as our mess guest instead?

His memoirs are entitled *The Pursuit of Exactitude.* And when requested by his lads, off to Iraq to visit with them he went, at the age of 93. There's still a good bit of soldiering left in that old bird yet, again, another leader who sets the example... and cares for his men before himself.

[archy]

It's pretty well packed, that's for sure!

So are the Marine LAVs in Haiti. If most of the junk they've got stowed wasn't green, I might figure those boys had been up to a bit of looti-, I mean, scrounging....

[archy]

(bad news for the bad guys, ping!)

It's no joy for the chickens in Haiti, either. Patience, young gunner, patience: just wait and hell move right into the kill zone....

[Steel Wolf]

Thw swivel mounts are a good development. More and more of the Humvees up here in Mosul are starting to sport them. A few of the more tricked out SF rides have a .50 in the turret and swivel mounted M240's on both rear doors. It definitely sends the message to the locals that this vehicle is not an easy target.

[archy]

Vietnam Lessons Learned, (then promptly forgotten) #47:

Never travel in lead position of convoy with vehicle windshield up. Bay Guys hop out in front of vehicle and shoot you, but you can't shoot through windshield because guy in front can't get weapon to bear and guy in back is looking out side.

Why won't windshield fold down on Humvee???????

#48: Take off all canvas. With canvas on, they can shoot at you, but you can't shoot at them 'cause you can't bear on them or even see them. Also when sierra hits the fan, you want multiple ways for 10 people to get in and out of vehicle, in 10 different directions, at same time.

Not necessarily. Leaving the canvas on over the driver's position sheltered him [and the radios] when it rained, and having the canvas slope from a high position in back to a lower position in front helped keep any tossed grenades out of the driver's compartment- without such a roof there was too much chance one could be pitched in and roll under the seats due to the slope of the floorboards, expecially if the floor was sandbagged against the possibility of having one rolled underneath.

[archy]

Being able to quickly put a high volume of firepower on the people who are trying to kill you is often better than passive protection like armor.

So invite some friends to the party....

[archy]

I not a vet, so I hope this question doesn't seem dumb! The gunner seems pretty exposed. How about some sort of shield, either like those on the M113's in Vietnam or using lexan something like what bank tellers sit behind. Or would the loss of view outweigh any advantage?

Not at all a bad idea, though the transparent polycarbonate for the application is more likely ballistic Rolex or LexGard rather than the more common Lexan from which they're derived. And it's not at all a bad question; it's by explaining the basis for such materials choices that reevaluation brings forth innovative ideas, maybe usable in an application other than the obvious one.

But face-hardened metal armor can be made hard on both the external and internal faces, sometimes offering twice the protection that other ballistic remedies can offer. That may not be a big deal if the shield slows a bullet to velocities that personal body armor can deal with it. Every little bit helps.

I'm still a proponent of metal armor for gunshields, but for some applications, something transparent might indeed work well. In Kosovo, where the threat very much included more than *just* small arms, to include RPGs and .50 and larger antimateriel rifles, steel seemed to be the way to go. But the materials used in such applications are changing daily.

[MindBender26]

Oh Awchie!!!

Respectfully disagree. I'll disipline my drivers to take a little (or a lot) of rain so as to not obscure the fields of fire. Cover radios if you must, but get rid of the canvas.

I'll take my chances with a grenade being tossed in, in order to be able to shoot out. Bad guy with grenade has to get within 15 meters of me to accurately toss grenade into my vehicle. Bad guy with AK is effective at 200 meters, with RPD at 400+ meters. Like rock breaks siscors, I take my chances with canvas off and able to shoot that grenade thrower, AK/RPD shooter.

The real idea goes beyond the ability to kill the shooter/grenade thrower. The real idea is to be so ready, so ready to kill anyone who messes with you, and make it so obvious that you are, that when bad guys see you they say, "Oh, I forgot. Time to pray! I'll try next convoy!"

Nothing personal, but sounds like someone wanted a little portable shade/umbrella. He had a choice. Sun/rain or Mommy gets a body bag.

"War is Hell.... but I did so like the work!"

[MindBender26]

The pictured mount can also swivel 360 degrees. Excellent!

Now, just get rid of that top....... :~)

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Of course, if they happened to have gotten one from the Royal Marines, that'd be jolly well appropriate. But the Brit [and 6-wheeled Ozstrayuliun Landies have had those articulated gun mounts for at least a decade now.

I kind of figured it wasn't a new idea, lol. Thanks, as always, for the lesson, archy.

These threads inspire those who do know (and others *g*) to share ideas, display lots of enthusiasm for protecting our troops, show concern for their welfare. Great morale-boosting threads for all but our enemies.

[blackie]

More firepower ~ Bump!

We are winning ~ the bad guys are losing ~ trolls, terrorists, democrats and the mainstream media are sad ~ very sad!

~~ Bush/Cheney 2004 ~~

[archy]

The pictured mount can also swivel 360 degrees. Excellent!

Now, just get rid of that top....... :~)

Hey, I know! We could use some of these:

[DTA]

>>>>In Kosovo, where the threat very much included more than *just* small arms, to include RPGs and .50 and larger antimateriel rifles, steel seemed to be the way to go<<<

Another Clinton legacy. Training and arming Al Qaeda allies to become a threat to US servicemen.

[Darksheare]

I would've loved to have a minigun or two available for heavy suppression, and both m-60's and m249's available to add to the mix.
(A mk19 wouldn't have been a bad idea either..)
But, having been artillery I tend to go for overkill and obliteration..