Posted on 03/04/2004 2:19:56 PM PST by Vets_Husband_and_Wife
Which Bible did you find that in? The original Greek refers to "othonia", which are "grave cloths", not clothes. These grave cloths consisted of a "sindon" - a "shroud", and a "sudarion", - cloth used on the head, translated as "napkin." There may have been other binding cloths used to tie the arms and legs together in repose. None of these words imply in the least "clothing."
If you like, I can post the actual Gospel accounts in Koinic Greek (Anglicized for posting) that shows this. All other versions of the Bible are translations of this original Greek. This is the source material and the closest in meaning to what actually happened.
Joseph of Arimathea bought a SHROUD, a "sindon", not clothing. No scholarship has ever shown that Jewish burials included DRESSING the dead in clothes. Most poor people did get only a face covering cloth... but Jesus was treated as a RICH man by a RICH man and was buried in a Shroud.
The presence of pollen native to the Middle East, the cloth pattern matching what are known to be typical burial shrouds of first century Judea, the coins on the eyes matching those minted in Judea during the governorship of Pontius Pilate, and the condition of the corpse all indicate that the corpse was a (tall for the time) first century man who was beaten and nearly whipped to death, then crucified and prepared for burial in or near what is now Israel. The extensive and brutal scourging, wound in the side, head wounds from something that caused small punctures in the scalp, etc. are also hard to explain away as coincidence.
I'm not a Catholic and have never put much stock in "Holy Relics". You or anyone can choose to believe or not, but the circumstantial evidence is actually quite strong. Beyond that, it's a matter of faith.
From what we could see after viewing the movie for the second time, the only deviation was in the crucifixion scene and in where Mr. Gibson placed the nails. (It should have been in the wrists). Otherwise he followed the Gospels perfectly. He did put a human face on Jesus, which was *in our opinion* a good thing to do. (As to the critics saying the Jewish people were made to be "hooked nosed".. how racist was that? Peter had a bump on his nose, and he was a handsome and wonderful actor. Jesus didn't have a perfect nose either,.. but He was portrayed beautifully. We didn't really NOTICE noses.. we were too busy watching the movie and taking away the POSITIVE message(s). How "shallow" some people?) How sad.. we'll pray for them!!! We love what Jesus says about how easy it is to LOVE THOSE THAT YOU ALREADY LOVE.. BUT WHAT REWARD IS THERE IN THAT?
The Shroud of Turin is real, we have "no doubt" of it. I would love to see a documentary or a presentation by the STURP Team!
Also, on the thread you directed me to, I found this posted by Aske15!! In light of the release of "The Passion of the Christ" movie. This thread is so appropriate! WHEN WE SAW THE MOVIE FOR THE SECOND TIME LAST NIGHT AFTER READING ABOUT THE SHROUD OF TURIN.. WE KNEW MR. GIBSON HAD NOT EMBELLISHED. It was different the second time.
God Bless all of you! VH&W ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's an excerpt from the CRC on the work the STURP team:
"Professor Morano, of the electronic Microscope Centre of Vercelli and of the Institute of Pathological Anatomy of Turin, is the first to have studied the ultrastructural aspects of a thread of the Shroud by means of an electronic scanning microscope. Progress on the classical electronic transmitting microscope has been considerable. This quite recent technique consists in exploring the sample by means of an electronic beam focused on a very limited point and scanning it according to a trajectory like that used for a television picture. Now an examination, carried out in this three-dimensional perspective, on a thread of linen a hundred years old shows flattened and completely smooth fibres, whereas the fibres from a thread of the Shroud show a cylindrical and dirty ("sporco") aspect, encrusted with every sort of foreign body: spores, pollen grains.... exactly like the fibres of a two thousand year old cloth shrouding an Egyptian mummy in the Egyptian Museum of Turin. A further decisive proof of the Shroud's authenticity."
Also from the CRC: THE DATING OF THE IMAGE BY MEANS OF PALEOGRAPHY THE IMAGE DATED TO WITHIN TWO YEARS
Our historical investigation finds striking confirmation through paleography, which dates the image to within two years. Our late lamented friend, Father Filas, sent us the complete file of this discovery, which, to his credit, he brought to completion though not having initiated it himself. This fact needs to be recalled, for it all began with a consensus of American scientists, vouched for by the preliminary work of the STURP team at Albuquerque in 1977 and by Jumper's communication to the Congress of Turin in 1978. But it all ended in such a persecution of Father Filas starting from the meeting at Los Alamos in 1979, that to this day his file is as good as banned worldwide.
Why? For one reason only, which is totally alien to science: because we have here a dating of the image, and not just of the cloth, dating it to almost the actual year of the Event itself. It is the stamp or seal of Pontius Pilate, giving a date to which no scientist can raise any objection.
PILATE'S LEPTON
It is the three-dimensional analysis which gave birth to this hypothesis, but even a look at an ordinary photograph will clearly reveal a kind of disc placed over each eyelid, dark on the positive and light on the negative. An enlargement of this imprint, on the right eyelid, enabled Father Filas to recognize the imprint of a coin struck under Pontius Pilate: the same size, same cut, the same effigy, the astrologer's staff, the same inscription recognizable, from four quite legible letters, as a certain coin duly catalogued for the years 16, 17 and 18 of Tiberius Caesar, which would be the years 29, 30 and 31 of our era.
AN ANOMALY THAT DOES NOT DECEIVE
Confirmed by three-dimensional analysis, the discovery was found to be definitively corroborated by its very fruitfulness, for it led to some unexpected progress in numismatic science. Four Greek letters, Y CAI, are in fact all that are needed to reconstruct the inscription TIBEPIO [Y KAI] CAPOC, "of Tiberius Caesar". But there is an anomaly: on the Holy Shroud a Latin C replaces the initial Greek K of KAICAPOC, which figures on all the coin collections known up to 1980.
Thereafter, to those who accused Father Filas of letting his imagination run away with him or of taking his desires for reality, he answered that, not being a numismatist, he had so little desire to see a coin of Pilate's that "before I accidentally stumbled on this, he wrote to me, I would not have known a Pilate coin from a hole in the wall".
He was obliged, therefore, to consult the numismatic specialists, and it was then that his discovery proved to be so little the work of his imagination that it was responsible for a positive progress in the study of numismatics itself. It revealed that the anomaly observed on the Holy Shroud and already recognized as being of common usage in inscriptions but hitherto unknown in numismatics, existed identically on other collection coins struck under Pontius Pilate, which no one had noticed before.
We have here a document dated within a year or two by the express Will of Him Who caused this Image to be imprinted on the cloth. For one would have expected to see shards of broken pottery used for covering the eyes, as was the Jewish custom, but it would not have been possible to read a date from them. Whereas the little coin proclaims: it is "under Pontius Pilate" that this Man suffered.
I kept saying under my breath throughout the movie:
"Thank you Jesus".. "Thank you". "Oh no".. "Oh Jesus.. I'm so sorry"..and then again.. "Thank you Jesus" and "I love you Jesus"!
And at the end.. when HE LIVED AGAIN.. I said softly "PRAISE GOD"!!!
Amen. AMEN!
This sounds like the case. That would have to be for Jesus to be a He and not a She.
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